Have you been sent a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) for allgedly stopping in a box junction? Are you feeling mad? Read this, it might help.
If you need help fending off bailiffs then read this post.
Do not be afraid to challenge the PCN
A challenge is in two stages:
1. You “make representation” against the PCN to the local council that issued the PCN. They then write back and cancel the PCN or reject your representation.
2. Assuming they reject your initial challenge you can then appeal to the Parking And Traffic Appeals Service (PATAS). This is an independent tribunal where you will get a fair hearing by an adjudicator.
The odds are you will win if you appeal
Less than 1% of people sent a ticket appeal. If you appeal the odds are about 3:2 in your favour. A lot of the time local councils do not contest appeals because it is cheaper to loose £100 than spend say £500 on a challenge. PATAS is funded by a 65p levy on every PCN issued. The more contests, the higher the levy.
The Local Councils make mistakes
CCTV enforcement of box junctions is relatively new and a lot of councils are having trouble complying with the law. The chances are they have made a mistake somewhere. The box junction itself may not be legal, or the wording of the PCN may not be correct. They are still learning, and a lot of the time it is us ‘victims’ that are doing the teaching.
Help is at hand
It’s mainly down to self-help. I am willing to assist and I am always on the lookout for test cases, but you will have to do some of the legwork – and be prepared to take a risk. There is no ‘magic bullet’ (yet); we are still accumulating a case history. Leave a message below and I will get back to you.
Some other sites that might be of help are:
Fightback Forums (leave a message in the Parking Tickets Forum)
Let me know if these are any good and if you find others.
December 16, 2006 at 10:36 pm |
Have recieved a PCN stating an offence occured on the 01/11/2006 on the 12/12/2006 don’t they have to send you the letter within 28 days of the offence occuring? also the cctv footage shows a date of the 01/12/2006. Think someone made a bo bo any ideas?
December 16, 2006 at 11:47 pm |
Hi Mark,
In part 2 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003
Section 6 [entitled] Limitation on service of penalty charge notice [states]
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply ocurred.
If the date of the alledged contravention (not offence) on the PCN is 1/11/2006 and the date of issue is 12/12/2006 then the PCN is invalid. Case closed.
Garbage in garbage out…
November 4, 2009 at 3:28 pm |
The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007
Part 2, Section 10 states:
(4) Subject to paragraph (6), a regulation 10 penalty charge notice may not be served later than the expiration of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which, according to a record produced by an approved device, or information given by a civil enforcement officer, the contravention to which the penalty charge notice relates occurred (in these Regulations called “the 28-day period”).
(5) Paragraph (6) applies where—
(a) within 14 days of the appropriate date the enforcement authority has requested the Secretary of State to supply the relevant particulars in respect of the vehicle involved in the contravention and those particulars have not been supplied before the expiration of the 28-day period.
This gives the authority up to 6 months to serve PCN, providing they can prove that information request was sent to DVLA within 14 days
Colin
December 18, 2006 at 6:48 pm |
Hi Mark.
I was issued with a pcn for stopping in a box junction on liverpool rd islington. In neither of the images on my pcn is the registration mark of the vehicle visable. It is completely obscured by the vehicle in front. Do you know if the council would have stored other still images or have video evidence of the vehicle. If not I was considering challenging the pcn as I am not sure if it my vehicle.
Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Steve.
January 17, 2007 at 10:25 pm |
I have been issued with a PCN from TFL regarding contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited.
Can you or anyone advise on the following:
1) Wording of the PCN Issued:
1a) PCN states “Date of Notice:” but does not state “Date of Contravention:”
1b) PCN does not state the make or model of the vehicle, just the registration
1c) Contravention code is just 31 and not 31j (indicating CCTV)
1d) the word “number” is omitted from vehicle registration and penalty charge notice, e.g. should it state penalty charge notice number and vehicle registration number?
Is there any legistlation that lays out the required wording of the notice?
2) The vehicle in question is a leased company car. Are there provisions for extending the time limit between the date of contravention and date of notice beyond 28 days. Date of contravention was 23/11/2006 and date of notice is 10/01/2007. I have yet to personally receive a PCN in relation to this offence, the PCN I refer to above is the one my company has been issued with as the registered keeper – no doubt I will get my own one in the post when the company tells TFL that they believe I was the driver.
3) From the photos provided, I cannot see the VRN or distiguish my car. I have a silver car and there are 2 silver type cars in the photo. One appears to have the rear of the car over the box junction (just) and another is on the box junction but is obscured by the van in front of it. If TFL have not clearly identified which car is subject to the contravention and I cannot easily identifiy my own car, how can I decide whether to challenge the PCN based on this vague CCTV image?
Thanks in anticipation of your help.
Paul
February 23, 2007 at 11:45 am |
Hi Mark,
I recieved a PCN dated on the 21/02/07 for a contravention dated on the 31/01/07. The alleged traffic contravention of Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited in Ruislip Road, Jcn of Mansell Road, Greenford, UB6.
I drove past the junction this morning, and notice there was a small dome camera on a lamp post close to the box junction. Also there are no signs to indicate a ‘banned box junction’.
If any camera is situated on the road, it’s my understanding, that there should be signage warning off the camera. ie. speed cameras are not legal until the proper signage is in place.
I will be taking some photos of the junction showing no signs in place, incase I have a case.
Thanks for your help
Pritesh Khambatta
March 1, 2007 at 2:22 pm |
I have just received a PCN box junction notice. It states that I ’stopped in a box junction (on the yellow crosses) when prohibited’. It was apparently observed by a real time camera.
The actual circumstances were that I was 4/5 cars back from red traffic lights when they changed green. The cars ahead of me proceeded across the box with me following the car in front into the box as the exit was clear for the driver in front. I was about to leave the box on the other side when the cars ahead of me suddenly came to a halt and I was stuck on the edge of the box for 12 seconds (according to the notice) until the lights turned from green to red.
The accompanying photo shows my car stopped clearly behind a white car which has just left the box with a blue car, being half way into the box, stuck behind me; we are all about a metre apart from each other.
Do I have a chance of contesting this as the exit to the box was apparently clear when the queue of cars I was in proceeded into it? The live operator must have seen the circumstances but has decided to take pictures for apparently an easy way of collecting money.
Any ideas are welcome. Many thanks.
March 12, 2007 at 12:18 pm |
Hello,
I have received a PCN for “Enetering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited”. The junction in question is the one on Green Lanes junction with Endymion Road. I do not believe that I am in the wrong, but was forced to stop because the vehicle infront decides to change from the left hand lane to right hand lane causing me to stop. The left hand lane (my lane) is clear and i could have cleared the box.
I would really appreciate any help/advice on tackling the PCN correctly.
Kind regards,
Akil
March 16, 2007 at 9:30 am |
Hello,
I received a PCN for “entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited”. It states incorrectly that this box junction is in Eardley Road when in fact it is actually in Greyhound Lane. It also states that I was stationary within the junction but all 5 pictures taken have exactly the same time on them.
The circumstance are very similar to a case above. A new set of lights have been installed in Greyhound Lane so you think you have a clear exit out of the box but then a red light several cars further on then stops you completely clearing it. I am not obstructing the flow of traffic at any time. Is there anything I can do?
Many thanks for your help.
Sandra
March 16, 2007 at 4:40 pm |
Hi,
Thanks for this informative blog! I have been issued a PCN : 31 (E and S in BJ when P) It has correctly identified the junction as Battersea Bridge Road/Westbridge Road. There are 2 photos. In photo 1 my rear wheels are clearly inside the box – but by a matter of inches! I am in no way blocking anyone. It is clear that there is a huge traffic jam ahead that I recall at the time was moving erratically. The second close up picture of the car shows the numberplate clearly, but does not show any yellow lines near my car. (that may be resolved if the shot is zoomed out) There is a 12 second time difference between the 2 shots.
I telephoned the enquiry line and asked if they had any further shots of my car – they said they had one after the “offence” but none showing me entering the box. Is that sufficient grounds for an appeal? Or is the adjudicator likely to take pity on me as I am clearly not obstructing anyone and have just been caught out by erratically moving traffic? My recollection is that I was just crawling along with everyone else when the traffic stopped and I was caught short by a matter of inches. It wasn’t as if I flagrantly entered the box with no regard to other traffic.
Any advice you can give me much appreciated.
regards
susan
April 10, 2007 at 1:08 pm |
Do you know if the council have a time limit to reply to arepresentation, I sent 3 off between oct and dec last yr and have only just recieved a rejection of representation now?
Any help would be great.
Thanks
Adam
April 18, 2007 at 1:39 pm |
Hi there…my case is very similar to Susan Woodward’s above. Same contravention, same day, same place in Battersea. Again the traffic was moving erratically, and again my back wheels alone are in the yellow box and I am in no way blocking the traffic crossing the junction. The main difference is that the second shot (with a 12 second interval shows me in the same place and the operator has not zoomed in).
There are several reasons that I do not feel I should pay this PCN:
1) I may have stopped in the box but only did so because it was beyond my control. If I had been able to anticipate that the traffic would suddenly stop I wouldn’t have continued across the junction. I, as much as anyone else, get incredibly irritated with people who selfishly and deliberately park their cars in the centre of a junction cutting off traffic coming in the other direction and would never deliberately do it purposely myself.
2) What does the council expect us to do? Hang back at the start of every junction just in case the traffic stops? If everyone did this wouldn’t it slow the traffic down still further causing even more congestion? The fact that I make this trip almost every day and that making this same mistake again is to a degree unavoidable upsets and intimidates me enormously.
3) The level of the fine – £100 (going up to £150 after 28 days)
This is an extortionate amount to be fined for unintentionally remaining static in a junction box for a matter of seconds, and the punishment clearly doesn’t match the crime. A parking offence is arguably far more intentional and controllable, yet it is levied at approx half the amount in Central London. Why is this? And don’t even get me started on making comparisons with the paltry fines faced by hardened criminals in court…..how can a fine of this enormity for this crime be legal?
So…to summarise…under the rules of the PCN it feels like I don’t have a leg to stand on without going down the route of demanding video evidence and that even then I probably won’t be able to make a case. At the end of the day I want to appeal because I feel that this new method of fining is incredibly unjust and that the council’s reasons for taking action in this way is at best dubious and at worst criminal. What are the points that you feel I should emphasise in my appeal in order to get the results I’m looking for? Are there any clever angles I can take?
Any advice would be extremely gratefully received.
Best wishes
Pip
April 24, 2007 at 10:18 pm |
Hi Mark
I am another one that has been caught on a video camera with the back end of my car in a yellow box junction and like many other people here I was not restricting or stopping the flow of traffic in any way.
What is very obvious from the video still is that I have stopped at the pedestrian crossing at the other side of the junction In the video still a group of people which includes a mother with her push chair at the front of this group are wanting to cross the road, I seem to remember in the highway code that you are to exercise caution when approaching such places.
What is also obvious in the video still is that you cannot stop at the pedestrian crossing without being in the box junction as it overlap the junction by a good half car length, was I supposed to ignore these people or run them over is they attempted to cross in slow moving traffic
April 24, 2007 at 10:21 pm |
It is not the £50 it is the total lack of common sense by the council camera operator. Whilst driving am I supposed to just ignore other road and highway users?
May 9, 2007 at 12:34 pm |
Like Akil, I received a PCN for stopping in the box junction between Green Lanes and Endymion Road and likewise I was forced to stop because a car changed lanes and cut in front of me, I had to stop to avoid a collision.
I will appeal against this, and I urge EVERYBODY to appeal against these fines.
I will post again to update you on the progress of my appeal.
Great site, keep up the good work!
May 26, 2007 at 2:24 pm |
Hi I have also ben vitim of the green Lane camera operator recording my vehicle with the rear of my car in the box due to the driver in front stopping to change lane. So good lucj to all that ar going to appeal these stupid pnc’s
June 16, 2007 at 4:38 pm |
hi, i received a pcn from the Liverpool Road and Broomfield Street box junction which i paid last december, and always thought it was unfair. a friend told me about this site so i have cut and pasted the appeal which you had on this site for the same junction and am intending sending it to islington parking services in the hope of a refund. david marshall.
June 27, 2007 at 4:37 pm |
I have recently received a PCN from Lambeth council for a box junction near Streatham Vale station which never use to be a problem until they installed new traffic lights about 50 yards down, these lights are not in sync with the box junction, the lights at the box are still green when the new lights turn red and therefore there is no way that cars will not be caught in the box, also traffic turning right is never impeded and those wanting to turn left can’t because the lights lower down are on red, this is more aggravated at rush hour times thanks for the law on junctions which i shall use in my appeal aas i feel this box is not legal as the council cause the problem by the installation of the new lights.
June 27, 2007 at 6:42 pm |
E D W – Is the location of Sandra Ifield’s (above) the same as yours?
June 27, 2007 at 9:35 pm |
yes it is but mine states that i am in streatham vale, and it is the same junction I too was heading toward the station when the lights changed, I was just in front of Eardley road and not obstructing the flow of traffic either also thanks to your first letter I think my notice is invalid the alleged traffic cotravention was on the 19/03/07 and my notice was served on the 20/06/07 so if your opinion is right that it should have been sent out within 28 days of the contravention this notice would be invalid
June 27, 2007 at 10:11 pm |
Yes, the law states that the PCN must be issued within 28 days of the alledged contravention. In Mark’s case the PCN was cancelled. Write a letter to the Council making representations on that basis. Do not send the original PCN back – keep it as evidence just in case they try to cover up their mistake.
June 28, 2007 at 11:08 am |
Thanks moneyboxjunction will let you know how I got on
July 10, 2007 at 2:29 pm |
Hi there.
I have recieved a PCN for entering a yellow box on east hill/ st anne’s hill sw18
On the 2 b/w photos the numberplate is not visible, and although it looks like my vehicle,
i do not remember being there or getting stuck in a box – something about which i am
fanatically careful about avoiding. In any case, if it was me, it looks like the way looked clear, but
i am prevented from moving by the vehicle in front which has plenty of space to move into.
I wish to appeal – is the lacking numberplate sufficient cause?
Great site by the way.
Yours,
Kieran.
July 10, 2007 at 3:14 pm |
Oh, and by the way, we’re moving out of London, it has become a very unpleasant place to live.
July 26, 2007 at 8:44 pm |
Hi,
I have recieved a PCN from Ealing for a box junction contravention near joseph’s drive.
I cant remember the incident but I am sure it must be something urgent that may have caused me to stop on the box. I would never stop on a box jn/keep clear intentionally.
The notice did not have the contravention number mentioned anywhere on the letter. Does that make a difference?
Thanks
Mahesh
August 4, 2007 at 9:43 am |
I have received a PCN for stopping in a box junction in Leytonstone, near the Green Man roundabout.
I checked the approach roads to this junction and apart from one vaguely worded “Cameras are in operation in this borough” sign with a speed camera symbol on one of the approach roads there are no other signs warning that the whole area is bristling with cameras.
Can I appeal on thse grounds with any chance of success?
Unfortunately I have left it a bit late as I have only just seen the notice so, if I lodge my appeal before the expiry of the cheap £60 fine, will any future fine still be £60?
By the way, many thanks “MoneyBoxJunction” for running and maintaining this site!!
Vaughan
PS would be very grateful if you could reply before my Tuesday deadline!
August 15, 2007 at 1:41 pm |
Hi
I received a PCN for entering a box junction today from Wandsworth. The date of the notice is 31/07/07 and the date of the contravention is 24/07/07 but I only received it today which is the 15/08/07 so I am already past the date where I can pay the discounted rate!!!
They say they have video evidence taken from a real time camera operator. I would like to see this evidence. Do I tick the box ‘There was no contravention…’ and then write in the details box ‘I would like to see the evidence’? and just send that off? Is it allowed to enter the box if the cars ahead of you are actually moving forward but stop suddenly?
Many thanks…Excellent work on this website by the way…I am sure loads of people are finding it helpful!
August 22, 2007 at 9:15 pm |
Hi there All
Seems like a lot of us have been caught in these box junctions due to the driver infront stopping, I have the same problem. Money Box Junction would you mind giving us some advice and a few legal pointers??? HELPPPPPPPPPPPPP me if you can I’m feeling downnnnnnnnnnn and I do appreciate you being round…….
August 30, 2007 at 9:20 pm |
Apologies if this is a blonde question but can you appeal to a box junction PCN on the grounds of ‘not being able to see’ if your exit way is clear?
I am just about to appeal a PCN for the box junction at Battersea Rise/Northcote Road (Battersea, Wandsworth Council) which as far as I can see is almost impossible to use for turning left without being liable to a PCN. The corner of the junction is built on of course (this is London afterall!) and you can’t actually see round the corner to know if your exit is clear.
Thanks Susie p.s. I wish I had found your site hours ago it would have saved me a lot of time and research!!
September 3, 2007 at 7:10 pm |
Hi Moneybox Junction just to update you on my progress re the P.C.N I received back in June 2007, to date I have heard nothing and with just under 30 days left I am hoping that Lambeth council have seen sense and dropped this charge, if I hear anything further I will post it on here.
September 8, 2007 at 9:30 pm |
Hi all latest update found in office Friday 8th letter from lambert asking for £150 as I had not paid my PCN and that i had not appealed or my appeal was refused, (no letter recieved saying my appeal was unsuccessful) rang them up to be told that this was a gliche in their system and that my appeal was logged but not dealt with yet, so just to warn you all if you have appealed and you get one of these letters ring them, let them know and hold tight do not be tempted to pay, they are trying it on.
September 10, 2007 at 11:05 pm |
hi i have just received a pcn for stopping ina box junction at new kings road bagleys lane i feel this site is a money machine for h&f council as the phasing and position of traffic signals make it very difficult to judge traffic flow especially when a van or lorry is in front blocking you view of signals ahead it is easy for cars to be left with their tail end in box as vehicles in front are forced to stop when signal is green as pedestrians crossing refuse to pay attention to signals.i believe h&f know of this signal visability problem and fail to correct it as it would reduce their revenue.please could you advise me if i should make representions against this unfair choice of sites they chose to enforce
September 11, 2007 at 8:14 am |
Hi Mark
I have received a penalty notice for stopping in a junction box on liverpool road n1. You cannot see my registration number as in steve ronson’s case – is there any way you can help?
September 12, 2007 at 10:51 pm |
Hi Mark just found your site from google. I share your passion would you like a link from my site and vice versa?
September 14, 2007 at 1:08 pm |
Sorry that last message was to the owner of this site….
September 15, 2007 at 12:17 pm |
Hello. I have just received two Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) from Waltham Forest for the same alleged offence. The difference is only in the pictures taken from different camera operators – the date and time on both of these are the same.
I believe I do have very strong grounds for getting at least one of them cancelled (the second one in numerical order?), and even the first one as well given that it is clear from the picture that I was not blocking the road for people to turn into as there is a cone blocking off the adjacent road.
Would be grateful for advice on how to proceed. Have tried calling the council today (on Saturday) and only get the automated line. Will try again on Monday. Shall keep you posted on my progress.
September 30, 2007 at 1:57 pm |
Hi, Jim
I was caught by the camera at Ruislip Road and Mansell Road of Greenford in May and June respectively for stopping in the box junction. I appealed to the Ealing council but was rejected and asked to pay 100 pounds. They said that there was an operator who did recording specifically for people stopped at box junction and that they reinvestigated it. The record showed that I should pay the penalty. I was really upset and scared of driving through that point since then.
I was very pleased when I read the article about the illegal box junction on Ealing Gazzete. It seems that there will be a hope for all the people who were unfairly given the PCN to claim the money back.
I was wondering if you could write a letter on behalf of all the people experienced PCN and for them to sign up. and hand it to the organization incharge.
Thank you very much indeed for help!
Min Liang
October 1, 2007 at 5:11 pm |
Similar, problem as most on this site have just recieved a PCN 31 for battersea/northcote road.
Can i contest this?
I entered the junction when the light was green, I then got stuck and the light has gone red. The Con Code states ‘31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited’ I saw another post stating that if it is cctv the Con Code needs to be 31j. Is this true? and is it worth my while to contest or am i going have to pay even more money…. £120 so far….
thanking you
Matt
October 2, 2007 at 9:57 am |
My situation is exactly the same as Susan Woodward 16th March & Pip 18th April. I’ve been pictured at Battersea Bridge Rd/Westbridge Rd. I was turning left into Battersea Bridge Rd and the 1st pic shows my front wheels outside the yellow box junction and rear wheels in the zone. The 2nd pic is 26 sec later and shows I’ve not moved at all.
Getting stranded in the zone is due to to massive congestion and erratic traffic behaviour (due to the congestion charge zone moving to just over Battersea Bridge). The through traffic was not being blocked and you’d reasonably expect that the traffic would move enough that you’re rear wheels will be out of the yellow box before the lights change to red.
Is it worth contesting ?
October 3, 2007 at 9:21 pm |
update to my PCN Lambert have rejected my appeal on grounds that i entered a bx junction when my exit was not clear and although i also appealed on the grounds that the PCN was not legal they made no mention of this they have however offered me the half price deal if i pay it now , of course i am going to appeal it to the adjudicator and ask for a personal hearing, M B J ant thoughts?
October 3, 2007 at 9:22 pm |
\sorry re my spelling that last part should be Money Box J any thoughts?
October 4, 2007 at 6:17 pm |
Hi, i have received a penalty charge notice for stopping in a junction box in Leytonstone High Rd. The first picture shows my number plate, but the 2nd (1second later) shows a different first letter! I went on the website and blew the picture up. It definitely looks like an F instead if a B. Also i have a blue bit on my number plate and that is not showing in the 2nd picture. What do i do? I am sure the pictures have been edited. The letter says that i can view the cctv footage, which i plan to do. I am sure the council is on the fiddle.
October 4, 2007 at 10:10 pm |
Hi,
I have received a PCN for entering a yellow box on east hill/ st anne’s hill in Wandsworth.
I got trapped in the junction box after the car that suddenly stopped despite there was enough space in front of the car that stopped suddenly which is possible to see even on the photo provided by Transport for London on PCN.
Thanks for your help.
October 5, 2007 at 3:17 pm |
Hi, I have recieved a penalty charge fo £120 for entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited in Bowes Rd/Brownlow Rd. The notice contains 2 images, the first shows me in the box junction behind a number of cars that had stopped due to a van driver suddenly stopping and pulling across the traffic to try to do a u-turn. The flow of traffic was fine until this incident. The second image is taken 20 seconds later by a different camera so there is no indication of how long I was supposed to have stopped. Surely the van driver is a fault as their error meant that the traffic flow was suddenly brought to a standstill. Do I have grounds for an appeal? Thanks for your help
October 13, 2007 at 6:09 pm |
Hi,
I have also received a penalty charge for £120 from Ealing council for stopping just short of the end of a box junction in South Road – Junction of St Josephs Drive in Southall. First time I have come across this completely ridiculous way of the goverment and local councils forcing you to part with yet more of your hard earned money! My situation was caused by a transit van stopping short of the car in front so I had no choice but to stop in the box for a few seconds. Ealing coucil have sent me a letter with 2 pictures a few seconds apart proving this. In the letter sent to me though it clearly shows the words that they ‘believe’ that a penalty charge is payable which would mean to me that perhaps it is not strictly law that I have to pay this charge and they are just trying it on as much as possible as more people will pay it without question than contest it?
Anyone who knows Southall will know it is one of the worst places in London for traffic flow and judging traffic flow ahead of you let alone looking out for the ever increasing flow of signs/marking and regulations. Please advise if I have any case for an appeal also.
Thanks for your time and help, and great site by the way!!
Cheers,
Matt
October 13, 2007 at 6:20 pm |
MY GOD!!!!!!!
October 13, 2007 at 6:23 pm |
I have just received another letter from Ealing showing a picture of the front of my car this time and a different time and date and picture of me stopping again in exactly the same junction box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please help me someone or I am going to have to take out a bank loan to pay these people!!!!!!!!!
Man am I pissed.
Matt
October 14, 2007 at 7:10 pm |
hi
i have received a PCN for stopping in the ruislip rd / mansell rd boxed junction… i have veiwed the video and stopped 2ft inside the box. i now believe the box to have been made smaller since and been made much smaller to comply with the law ?.i havent paid and not been sent anything saying the case had been found against me untill i receveid another pcn which says that it has increased by 50% to £150… i do believe the first amount was £40… strange 50% !!!!… have i any legs to stand on, and if so please tell me which one so i can kick back with the other
thanks sean
October 18, 2007 at 8:17 pm |
Hi
I hope someone might be able to help advise me (and possibly stacks of others). I have recd a PCN for an alleged contravention “in long lane, hillingdon, mtc”. I was turning right (as I do every day) at a notoriously busy junction that very often gets choked up by pedestrians crossing at the lights / a nearby zebra, buses turning, delivery lorries reversing down side alleys, etc, and so often catches out a huge number of people every day.
The highway code law 174 states “……However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.”
I feel that this very much applies in my case, but would also be interested in how else I might be able to appeal providing an even stronger case. e.g. notices, signage, yellow box layout, wording on PCN, etc.
If I am unable to win the case, I feel that I shall never again be able to move at this junction when the lights turn green without fear of being clocked by the CCTV camera. Oh the joys of free flowing traffic !!!
October 22, 2007 at 6:56 pm |
Dear Mark,
I have received a PCN on the 22nd of october which the letter is actually undated other than stating the date and time the vehicle was seen. which according to the letter is the 22/9/2007.
do you feel this alone is reason enough to appeal and potentially be succesful.
further to the above on visiting the waltham forest borough website, it shows more pictures of my vehicle actually being blocked in by a white van behind me who was also in box junction. These pictures have not been put on the PCN i received.
i basically was forced to stop because upon proceeding into the box junction the traffic if front was also forced to stop and could not go anywhere else as the van behind had already moved to close.
im not the best at this sort of thing, but hate the feeling that im being taking advantage of. If you could help me in anyway it would very much appreciated.
kind regards.
October 24, 2007 at 2:13 pm |
Hi Mark
PCN re Bagleys Lane/Kings Road. Pictures show me turning right out of bagleys onto Kings. Impossible traffic at the time due to the cut through onto Kings road (Homswood terrace) being closed. My representation that I was turning right and therefore should not get a PCN was rejected on the basis that the exit was not clear when I entered and the ‘turn right’ exepmtion only applies if stopped by oncoming traffic. Are they right about this or would an appeal stand a chace of sucess?
Thanks a lot. JM
October 26, 2007 at 8:32 pm |
We have just received a PCN for my wife’s car which my daughter was driving through the Battersea Bridge Road/Westbridgen Rd junction. Having found this brilliant site it would seem this is a hot spot for fines. I note the significant appeal that was mounted in August, but wonder if there are still grounds to appeal on the format of the PCN, the incorrect junction box marking (which the picture seems to show lines intersecting at an oblique angle rather than 90degrees and the fact that traffic was moving when she entered the junction but came to a halt just before she exited.
Like everyone else, this means of raising fines is little short of extortion and should be challenged – either that or it becomes yet another reason to simply pack up and leave the country! Very grateful for your advice.
October 30, 2007 at 2:48 pm |
Just had a PCN from Tfl for the box junction turning in off St Anne’s Cres onto East Hill Wandsworth. In one picture I’m sitting across the corner of the Box, as there’s not a “straight across” option, and in the second it’s zoomed in, but I must have moved since the first as my number plate is obstructed in the first and not in the second. I’m going to take it all the way, as I could have driven out but if I had the car ahead, which must have been moving slowly, would have thought I was trying to cut them up the inside.
I think the box is there to stop cars coming down East Hill not blocking, but I’m turning onto the main road, and like Northcote Road, can’t see the exit.
Like anyone else I get very cross when people enter yellow boxes and block the flow of traffic, but I’m turning onto the main road, it’s not a crossroads!
This system is clearly flawed, and is going to catch out people who aren’t causing any problems, or who are likely to be caught out again even knowing the cameras there.
Any advice welcome but as in most of these cases I suspect if I can be A***** to appeal and appeal again it might be cancelled.
October 31, 2007 at 5:16 pm |
I am hoping someone could please clarify the below statement for me as I am not too sure how it relates to PCN enforcements and the LLA traffic act.
Simply USING THE ROUTE is not a contravention, DISOBEYING A SIGN is
November 6, 2007 at 11:38 am |
I have just received a PCN from TFL. Like many others I had simply stopped in the beginning of the box as traffic ahead came to a stop. (in fact the photo shows I could have crossed as the space the other side looks big enough. That’ll teach me!) The start of the box is before the end of the pavement for a pedestrian crossing & therefore not blocking anything. The ‘offence’ occurred at the jct of Peckham High St & Peckham bus station for which they’re demanding the princely sum of £120 rising to £180. They say they have the offence on video or DVD. Is this true? Like your other queries above I do not see how otherwise they can tell from the 2 photos that I’m actually stationary. I believe road markings are often wrong. Is this worth checking? Thanks for running your site. This daylight robbery has to be fought. David
November 6, 2007 at 12:32 pm |
I logged onto Ticketbusters. Thinking I would get all the info I paid the £10 fee & enrolled. Unfortunately they don’t seem to cover box jct infringements. (Contravention code 31 wasn’t included in the list)
November 11, 2007 at 12:29 pm |
I’ve just received a PCN for turning left against a “No Let Turn” sign from Rosebery Avenue into Tyson Avenue in Islington, from a CCTV camera.
I honestly didn’t see the sign as it is poorly placed in the central reservation, not on the left hand pavement, and I’d like to appeal on these grounds.
Does anyone know if there are national guidelines on the placement of signage that I could refer to?
Cheers
November 14, 2007 at 9:38 pm |
Hi Moneybox,
I have recievd a PCN for entering and stopping in the box junction at the same location as ED Walters & Sandra.
Any help / guidance would be much appreciated.
November 17, 2007 at 1:49 am |
Hi moneyboxjunction,
I posted on parking tickets forum regarding my situation and would appreciate if you could guide me fighting back
November 21, 2007 at 11:52 am |
Hi there,
I received a pcn for entering and stopping in a box junction.
In diagram 1044 it shows a box junction can not be longer than 30000…
Can you tell me what unit this is ? Is it millimeters , that would make the maximum length 30 meters… Is that correct ?
Regards,
Anya
November 21, 2007 at 12:01 pm |
Anya,
That’s correct, the dimensions are in millimetres, so the maximum permitted size is 30 metres.
November 29, 2007 at 9:29 am |
I just received a bill of £1060.14 from collection services used by Ealing for stopping in a box junction on 29.01.07 and 06.02.07. I never recieved any notices to this day but this bill. AA warrant of execution has been issued and they now have power to collect the money. on the letter my name is incorrect. I dont know how to start. I need help I know i should write letters but stating what?
All help most welcome
December 1, 2007 at 12:32 pm |
Update o Box Junction near Streatham vale and Eardley road, Lambeth were at it agai Yesterday 30/11/07 thier van parked on the corner of Erdley road on the double yellow lines, I just had to stop and take photo’s I also noted that they did not display any warning signs in the area except for one just on the post where they were parked. is this legal or is this entrapment?????? The traffic lights are still out of step the ones by the next junction turn red and those on the Eardley/Streatham vale are still green and as there is only 90 or so yards between the two still catch people in the box, but agai do they not have too display warning signs when they are operating this sting.
December 1, 2007 at 12:37 pm |
To Z Patel 14/11/07 watch this space my appeal to the ajudicator is to be heard on the 13/12/07 so a ruling one way or the other will be made but you should appeal in the meantime as i do not believe this box is fair or legal
December 4, 2007 at 3:18 pm |
Hi, i recieved a notice for the box juntion at Battersea Rise/Northcote road, i emailed them to appeal and am awaiting a reply. My view was blocked by a white van in front, and as i was already in the junction, because the driver of the van was driving erratically, i drove around him (he was turning right) only to find the way ahead blocked and myself trapped at the edge of the junction! Now i couldn’t reverse all the way back and i now face a charge of £120. Is there any set charge as i see some of you only got charged £100? So unfair!!
Why isn’t anyone in an important position, with the means to make a change, reading these posts?? What happened to the Public’s View?? Is it not important anymore!
December 13, 2007 at 7:13 am |
Hi, I also received PCN notice for entering junction box Streatham Vale ( Eardley Road) like E D Walters and Z Patel. Please keep updated with your progress as I am thinking of appealing against this notice. Many thanks in advance.
December 13, 2007 at 10:04 pm |
“VICTORY” “VICTORY”
Today 13th December 2007 my case was to be heard by the appeal tribunal and guess what Lambeth did not present a case, at the eleventh hour they bottled out of trying to defend the indefensible they know that the Eardly/Streatham Vale junction box is as stated in the appeal allowed on the 23/11/07 for a supposed offence on the 17/03/07 a few days before mine, the adjudicator stated “I AM NOT SATISFIED THAT THE LAYOUT OF THE BOX JUNCTION AND THE ROAD MARKINGS AS SHOWN THEREON IS/ARE COMPLIANT” this direction can be read in full under case reference 2070380194 0n the appeals website http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk.
So to all of you that have picked up tickets appealthe precident has been set you should win your cases the junction is badly set out and with the new light by the station being out of sight there is no way you can judge your exit.
December 13, 2007 at 10:06 pm |
PS to the originator of this site a hearty thank you for without this site I would have paid up and been fleeced as so many others before me
December 14, 2007 at 9:55 pm |
someone is getting very rich…………………
I received a penalty charge notice from TFL ( 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited) the car I drive is a company car and the offence toke place on the 16/11/07 and only on the 26/11/07 a notice was issued.
On the penalty charge only the vehicle reg was given and only BowesRd/ Brownlow Rd was given as the local of the offence. No pictures were sent to me.
How can I difend my self???????????????
December 16, 2007 at 8:45 pm |
CONGRATULATIONS!!! E D WALTERS You have given me hope. Can you please check the website and case no. once again as when I click on it, it takes some where else. I will have to appeal against this PCN ticket by 20th Dec.
Many Thanks in advance for all your help.
December 16, 2007 at 9:43 pm |
I received a money printing ticket today. I have stopped in a box junction on the A406, bowes road junction at 08:05am one morning during the rush hour traffic which is basically bumper to bumper stuff every morning. I have not upset anybody directly or assaulted someone or in fact committed a crime by causing damage to vehicles or property, I like many others on this site was simply driving to work…. for this I get screwed and shafted up the rear to the tune of £120…. how about a warning or an initial letter of you’ve made a mistake next time you’ll get stung. No, I have to pay, seems ironic as traffic cuts in from the right at this junction and if you do not cross the box you get beeped from behind,,, no more, I will be that infuriating guy in front of you leaving a huge space in front of me. We have all been sent these tickets because we own our homes and our vehicles are legitamite, meaning the councils know they can get ‘their’ cash…. they are not interested in joe up the road on the council estate as the council knows the dss will end up paying the fine. This system of fining the honest commuter is a scam, it is basically a licence to print money, my next car is going to be a bus. TFL are a bunch of C@*$s,
December 17, 2007 at 9:07 pm |
E D Walters Please HELP.
Thanks
December 18, 2007 at 12:29 pm |
I have just received a notice, like Susan and Pip above, for purported contravention “31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited” at the corner of the same junction, Battersea Bridge Road and Westbridge Road for exactly the same reasons. I would be grateful for any feedback from either of these two people as to how they appealed it, and whether they were successful. Thanks, Gwyn.
December 18, 2007 at 7:00 pm |
Harinder
have tried logging in from here also but get taken elsewhere also, don’t know what to suggest , you could just try dot gov dot uk and see if you ca access it from there as the address i have given is the o on the form, I have however typed in the address myself and got onto the site so try that, the sad thing is that i could not locate the case i cited it seems you have to go to the tribunal to get this so i apologise for this, anyway get your appeal in ad when you get the rejectio appeal to the parking adjudicators you wont be sorry DON’T WAIT DO IT NOW
December 18, 2007 at 7:02 pm |
Sorry folks this laptop i am using sometimes the N does not work
December 18, 2007 at 9:19 pm |
Many Thanks for the reply and I have posted my representation today. Let’s wait and see.
January 4, 2008 at 10:35 pm |
Have just received a notice for contravention code 31 – entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited at the bowes road / brownlow road junction.
Very angry about this, as the still photos on the PCN do not prove i was stationery and i appear to be only just inside the box. (maybe half the car but its not that clear).
The first photo shows clearly that i am not actually obstructing any traffic and the second photo is four seconds later – which is just just a close up of my registration. Thats it , thats all the photo evidence they have provided. Therefore no indication of how long I allegedly stayed in the box junction.
The traffic was bumper to bumper and merging from 3 lanes to 2 across the junction and I was making an extremely rare (and stressful) journey in London. I suspect I may have been moving with the traffic albeit very slowly.
I have done a bit of research, mainly thanks to your site and other forums and was wondering if I should demand to see the video footage and also can i ask – do we know yet if this junction is compliant with all regulations. I have seen a satellite picture and the box markings seem to carry on further than 10% past the junction.
Please advise. do I have a case???
Thanks Neil
January 7, 2008 at 6:03 pm |
when I received the penalty notice for entering box junction, I sent the following information on the form on 06/12/07
“Thank you for your notice dated 30/11/07. I am astounded to receive the above notice and I wish to appeal against the charge and have made my representation in the attached form
On 22/11/07, I was a passenger in the above mentioned car and my husband Mr. A. Thevarajah was driving. I am astounded to receive the penalty charge notice. If you observe the photo carefully , you will note that there was no failure to comply with an indication of sign. You will note from the photograph the traffic was moving. There is a car ahead of my car on the left side lane positioned at the end of the box junction , the other car positioned on the right side lane is in the middle of the box junction and my car which is on the left side lane has entered the box junction to move on. I have reasons to believe that my car was moving. If you have evidence to the contrary to my belief, I look forward to receiving the same. I work in the locality. .My husband and I are law abiding citizens and are very concerned of the penalty notice. We would be grateful if you would cancel the penalty charge.”
on the 13/12/07, I sent to them by fax the following; “I write further to the representation I made on 6th December. I have now observed that the yellow box markings does not comply with the Regulations TSRGD 2002.
Please treat this letter as my additional representation”
I have yesterday received letter dated 24/12/07 posted on 3rd January on 4th January stating the following: “The above vehicle observed stationary within in the box junction/priory road on 22/11/07 Please note that being stationary within a box junction constitutes a contravention. Therefore, the issue of being partially in the box or for a short time or distance is irrelevant as this is a potential obstruction
Please note you must not enter the box junction until your road is clear . you must not enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping. If there is a vehicle already ahead of you in the box junction, you must wait until that vehicle has moved out and there is a free space for your vehicle the other side of the box junction. Upon investigation , I can confirm that your vehicle moved unnecessarily into the box junction . our CCTV video evidence clearly shows your vehicle entering the box junction before the exit route was clear. ( this is not correct- the route was clear and it was clear to cross) . The exit route was very clear – no traffic)
I think this is a standard wordings.
They have completely ignored who the driver was and sent the reply to me – They did not issue the ticket to the correct person
secondly, as I was a passenger I am aware what happened. Traffic signal is controlled by two signal posts on the same side with a distance of a few feet . .The box junction was clear to cross. From the photograph it is clear we are not obstructing anyone. The vehicle is positioned between two posts of the traffic lights located on the same We have to cross the second traffic post to enter the junction area. The box junction starts from the first traffic light post and continues passing the second traffic like posts to the middle of the road.
Between these two posts there is no pedestrian crossing. one side is fully railed other the other side blocked with bollard. and high cemented block
Either we have stopped when seeing the second traffic light post turning to red which is within yellow box area or just moving out .No evidence produced that we were not moving.
Putting two traffic light posts within a short distance of a apace of a car to control the traffic flowing from one side and inserting yellow box marking with in the two posts and placing a camera is well designed to trick the law abiding people who would be trapped w between the 2 posts
I am also concerned of they posting the letter dated 14/12/07 on 3rd January and 14 days would come up today
I have taken photos and can send it to you e mail as an attachment . please let me know to whom to send it to
I wish to submit the notice of appeal with proper grounds – they should first serve on the driver and then . their grounds are printed which is not the grounds that is applicable to us
If at all the first one is suit ale which is the contravention alleged by the PCN did not occur.
Mrs thevarajah
January 20, 2008 at 8:14 am |
This is an appeal for anyone who has issues with Haringey traffic enforcement in Tottenham to get in touch with First Tottenham newspaper through our website. We want your stories and photos.
January 25, 2008 at 7:15 pm |
Hi,
I live in bradford and down for 2 days. I went to london for the first time last week and was using the tom tom I asked to avoid congestion charges i never realised i went through a congestion zone until I receive a £60 penalty charge on 21/01/08. but it was actually issued on the 18th.
i was travelling from walthamstow to hammersmith.
is there any chance of avoiding this charge?
thank you
February 8, 2008 at 8:55 pm |
I have received a pcn from Islington showing my car apparently stationary while trying to exit a yellow box ie front half of car is already out of box while rear is still in the box. The two photos are taken 5 seconds apart. They have not supplied a photo of my car entering the box, so there is no evidence that the exit was blocked when my car entered.
The pcn itself does not actually state the amount of penalty payable nor the reduced amount for paying within 14 days nor the amount of 50% extra payable after 28 days ie the amount is left blank as follows “The penalty charge of £ must be paid etc….”
Does this make the pcn invalid?
Also one corner of the yellow box in the photos clearly does not reach the kerb, it reaches up to the edge of the double yellow line which runs along the kerb.
Please, do you think I should appeal? I do feel agrieved at receiving this because the fact is that I did not expect the car in front of me to stop and block my exit, but I realise this in itself is not a defence.
Thanks for any opinion or advice you may be able to give me
February 20, 2008 at 9:36 am |
Hi.
I have a PCN from exactly the place pictured in the example PCN here (Drayton Park).
As you can see in the opicture, 2 lanes merge into 1 in the middle of the box.
Can anyone confirm whether this is actually legal?
If anyone has successfully challenged a Drayton Park PCN, any advice would be really appreciated.
February 20, 2008 at 8:11 pm |
Hi, hope someone can help!
Got a PCN from Haringey Council, dated 19Feb 2008, with respect to “Entering and Stopping in a box junction when prohibited” in High Road N22 on 9Feb 2008
I know High Road in Haringey is a hot spot, and wonder if it’s worth appealing.
My car was stucked behind a car turning in from the right hand side, and blocked me right in the middle of the yellow box……..=(
Is it worth appealing? can someone please help? Happy to scan you a copy of the notice if required.
Thanks in advance
February 22, 2008 at 12:27 am |
Hello,
like a few on the website, I have been issued a PCN re: Northcoate Rd/Battersea Rise. According to another website, the box must adhere the the following rules:
“The yellow lines must go into the corner of the box, as shown in the picture below”
“The box should go right up to the kerb”
Are these regulations real?
If so then the box junction is invalid.
Thanks in Advance.
February 26, 2008 at 8:01 pm |
it seems i left my reply on part of the site that is not replied to unlike this section .i received a pcn for an infringment of the box junction at kings road / bagleys lane which has been paid by my company and then removed from my wages ,is it too late to make an appeal once the company has paid ?even if i would have appealled given the chance cheers for any advice
February 27, 2008 at 6:52 pm |
Hi,
I made an appeal against a PCN (first appeal) for stopping in a junction box where prohibited and they took almost 2 months to reply. Is there a time limit for the reply? I sent the appeal on the 21st of Dec and received the reply on the 26th Feb.
I have had to pay a couple of fines in the past and admit they were my fault – I think – but this is ridiculous. The photograph shows that I was stationary for 21 seconds.
Is there anything I can do? It happened at the Christchurch/Priory Road junction box. SW19.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Adrian
February 29, 2008 at 10:08 pm |
I am surprised that nobody as mentioned the box junction in east ham, junction of barking road and wellington road west bound. there is a set of pedestrian traffic lights that go red without anybody operating them and anybody who gets third in the Que when the lights change is caught on camera and don’t dare too give way to anybody wishing to join the traffic from wellington road as i did 60 Quid. ( This must be New-hams biggest moneybox )
February 29, 2008 at 10:14 pm |
Hi,
I received a PCn for stopping in a box junction. They however did not provide me with the photo showing my position before i entered the box . They only sent me two photos one showing the car in the box supposedly moving and another one which is a closeup showing nothing at all. How do i get started to appeal as i believe i was not in any infrigement of traffic rules. It seems the box is faded so it is not clear whether i am in the wrong so was wondering if i could use this to appeal. HELP Please
Thanks
Duncan
February 29, 2008 at 10:45 pm |
Great site, i have just received a pcn from LBWF for an offence in which i stopped in a box junction, this was caused by traffic turning right at the lights without indicating, when the traffic lights changed i moved off with the other cars only to find the car in the front of the que had decided to turn right without indicating and i was stuck in a box before the lights.
If i cannot appeal on these grounds then if the lines used to draw the box are not the correct thickness can i appeal on this basis ?
Thanks for your anticipated help,
Andy.
March 5, 2008 at 11:52 pm |
Hi. Just received an “Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited” TfL PCN with this wording:
A penalty charge of £ 120.00 is payable before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. If the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by 50%. If you fail to pay the penalty charge notice or make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may be issued to you increasing the penalty charge payable to £180 (less any monies already received).
They have included the words “beginning with the date of service of this notice” – as this does not comply with Section 4 (8) of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 – that will be the grounds for the appeal.
We shall see…
Richard
March 8, 2008 at 1:06 pm |
You can win !
I put a post here on Oct 2nd last year, I had been snapped in a box junction and I wasn’t happy with the way TFL was playing judge and jury via CCTV. After putting up my post Jim got in contact and gave me great advice on how to appeal the PCN. Its worth going through the motions, I was meant to go to the appeals tribunal last week but at the last minute TFL withdrew their case.
For all of you that feel harshly done by I recommend you stick it to them and appeal.
I can’t thank Jim enough for the assistance he gave me, his commend dedication to the cause!
March 9, 2008 at 4:55 pm |
I received a PCN from Lambeth Council for a contravention code 31 at the Eardley Road/Streatham Vale T Junction in July 2007, I appealled against it on the basis that the exit road (Streatham Vale) was clear when I entered the box, I had to stop in the box because the car in front of me pulled up for no apparent reason, my witness who was standing on the pavement opposite Eardley Road intervened and gestured to the driver to move forward, which he did allowing me to exit the box.
Notice of Rejection of Representation was received in December 2007 stating the following:-
The PCN was issued because the vehicle was observed entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited. I have read and noted the context of your letter however as stated in the Highway Code you must not enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.
You may only enter the box when you want to turn right however, this is not possible at the location. Therefore, you must not enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping. Regrettably, this PCN cannot be withdrawn as it has been issued in accordance with current road traffic legislation.
I attended the hearing of my appeal to PATAS on Friday 7th March 2008, the appeal was refused as follows:-
The issue is whether the appellant entered and stopped in a box junction in Streatham Vale when prohibited from so doing.
The appellant has submitted that he was forced to stop in the box junction as a result of the vehicle immediately in front of him stopping abruptly. I have also taken into account the video footage from which I have observed that the appellant entered the box junction when his exit from the junction was not clear. Essentially the appellant’s vehicle entered the box junction when there was insufficient space between the front of his vehicle and the rear of the vehicle in front, to permit the appellant’s vehicle to have passed through the box junction without stopping. It may be that the vehicle in front stopped rather abruptly, though this cannot be ascertained from the video evidence, but it does not detract from the point that the appellant’s vehicle entered the box junction when his exit was not clear.
I accordingly refuse the appeal.
Can you clarify paragragh 2 of Lambeth’s Noice of Rejection?
I feel the PATAS Adjudicator is confusing the issue of the exit road or lane being clear before entering the box and a vehicle being able to exit it once in it.
There is no video footage of Streatham Vale beyond the box, before I entered it,to prove or disprove this point. Yet there was no referral to my witness’s written statement confirming that Streatham Vale was in fact clear of traffic.
My witness is clearly visible on my copy of Lambeth’s video evidence but did not appear on the footage shown to me by the Adjudicator.
Should I contest the Adjudicator’s decision and apply for a case review the reason being ‘The interests of justice require a review’ or am I wasting my time?
March 11, 2008 at 6:07 pm |
Jon,
I have attempted to reply by e-mail, but your address us not accepted by MSN. Please post it again.
I have obtained a copy of your case from PATAS.
MBJ.
March 11, 2008 at 9:04 pm |
Hi MJB
In my haste I may have entered email address incorrectly, thanks for the speedy reply have had the demand for payment in the post today
March 19, 2008 at 3:13 pm |
Hi,
I am in need of some advise. I have received a Yellow Box PCN from Ealing Council for St. Joseph Drive / South Road junction. I was driving on the South Road towards The Broadway and the St. Joseph Drive meets the junction from the left for my case. There are 2 pictures seemingly taken at an interval of 5 secs with just my front wheels in the box. There were no cars ahead of mine and I am still on the entry side of the box. Not sure, if I stayed stationery in the junction for longer. I am planning to call up and arrange for a video viewing but it is a tremendous waste of time, I reckon. For sure, the position of the vehicle proves that there was no possibility of a blockage because of my car. Although I understand from the posts that the T-box junction have to be half the road and the St. Joseph’s junction is in violaition of this, but my case falls in the legitimate half and not sure if that clause can be easily enforced. Further I understand from the posts that the Ealing council recognises a problem with the box and itself plans to make the box a bit smaller leaving some 4mtr extra space for cars to queue up, which if implemented would push my car out of the box.
Any suggestions how to go about it ? I have scanned copies of the 2 pictures they have sent.
SKT
March 22, 2008 at 4:32 pm |
Hello,
I have also received a PCN for entering and stopping in a box junction from Lambeth Council as mentioned by Sandra above. My PCN states the location of Streatham Vale (junction with Eardley Road). I actully think the location is Greyhound Lane, the traffic light hidden round the corner when its on red means it prevents you from clearing the box. They have also taken 3 photos of my car none of the photos clearly shows my number plate. Any grounds for appeal?
March 26, 2008 at 10:22 pm |
Hi
I was unexpectedly and suddenly obstrcuted at this junction at Eardley Road and Streatham vale (a well known place for the council generating revenue from) by the cars in front of me. I was forced to remain in the box whilst trying to turn right for at least 10 seconds until the lights went red again. Not sure why the traffic stopped so unexpectedly? possibly a bad driver causing an emergency stop. The next traffic lights were far too near these and it’s clear that this is why the council tries to generate as much revenue as it can from this junction. The path leading to the box junction had very restricted view of it especialy with the amount of cars that were in front of me at the time. Please tell me if an how I can appeal. Cheers
March 27, 2008 at 11:11 pm |
Hi,
I have just received a PCN notice for the alleged traffic convention of Entering and Stopping in a box junction when prohibited in South Road/St. Joseph’s Drive, Southall on the 15/03/2008.
It states that I ’stopped in a box junction (on the yellow crosses) when prohibited’.
The accompanying photo shows my car stopped half way into the box and clearly behind a silver car which has just left the box for 6 seconds.
£60 for 6 seconds, this must be daylight robbery!!!
The actual circumstances were that I was 4/5 cars back from red traffic lights when they changed green. The cars ahead of me proceeded across the box with me following the car in front into the box as the exit was clear for the driver in front.
I was about to leave the box on the other side when the cars ahead of me suddenly came to a halt and I was stuck on the edge of the box for 6 seconds (according to the notice) until the lights turned from green to red.
.Do I have a chance of contesting this as the exit to the box was apparently clear when the queue of cars I was in proceeded into it?
Anyway advice will be greatly appreciated!
Please let me know as soon as possible, Ive got until the 3 April.
Thanks
Paul
April 8, 2008 at 1:16 pm |
Forgive me if I’m deliberatell vague, but who knows who reads this
I have just been sent a PCN by a London council for the alleged offence of “Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited”. It doesn’t mention “entering a box junvtion when the exit was not clear”, which is what I thought the law actually is about.
I have so far asked for actual evidence that when I entered the box junction the exit was not clear, since the two photos on the PCN do not show me entering the box.
There is one bit of information which is required under s4 (8) of London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, which is not on the PCN. What are my options? Do I:
(i) pay the reduced £60 fine, saying this is not an admission of guilt and that I will be taking the matter up with PATAS. Then after 28 days from the date of the alleged offence point out the omission of the required information from the PCN and ask for my money back;
(ii) tell them now of the omission of the required information from the PCN , and risk them issuing a correct PCN with 28 days;
(iii) do nothing and hope PATAS agree that the PCN is invalid, but risk paying the much higher charge as I will be outside the 28 days?
Dave
April 11, 2008 at 8:36 am |
Hi,
I didn’t get a reply to my previous post: can you confirm whether you’re yet aware if PATAS supports the case that the yellow box junction at St Joseph’s in Southall is illegal ? Please advise asap…
Thanks
Andrew
April 14, 2008 at 3:13 pm |
Hi
Im a victim of being caught in a box junction in heavy trafic ….but i heard somewhere that london transport have to issue the PCN within 28 days of the contravention
The date of the contavention was on the 7/3/08
The date of notice was on 8/4/08
cheers
jamie
April 15, 2008 at 4:50 pm |
Hi
I recently received a penalty charge notice for entering or stopping in a box in south road/st. joseph’s drive, south hall.
The cars ahead of me proceeded across the box with me following the car in front into the box as the exit was clear for the driver in front.
I was about to leave the box on the other side when the cars ahead of me suddenly came to a halt and I was stuck on the edge of the box for 6 seconds (according to the notice) until the lights turned from green to red and i had to stay there until the traffic lights showed green.
.Do I have a chance of contesting this as the exit to the box was apparently clear when the queue of cars I was in proceeded into it?
Anyway advice will be greatly appreciated!
Please let me know as soon as possible, Ive got until the 28 April
April 19, 2008 at 7:08 pm |
With the introduction of the new Traffic Management Act 2004 this month, a heck of a lot of PCNs that are being issued are invalid. People should check anything like a hawk at the moment.
April 23, 2008 at 8:15 pm |
Hi Mjb, Thank you for a website like this it gives us a life’s Purpose.
I have recieved a PCN today and have been seen at The (Drayton Park) box junction. I will be contesting it because was another car made an illegal maneuver to pass me at the junction.
My question is the same as Dave-o dated February 20th 2008. Has anybody successfully challenged (Drayton Park) PCN ???
Thanks
Take Charge
Lyndon
April 27, 2008 at 10:35 am |
Hi
I have just been issued a PCN from EALING for entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited in south road/Cambridge road southall, can anyone help me please. I entered the box following another car because the exit was clear for both cars but the vehicle in front decided to stop and about a meter of my car remained in the box.
Can anyone help me please?
May 4, 2008 at 2:25 pm |
I have recieved a PCN for ‘31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited’ Date of notice 30/04/2008 for an offence on the 25/04/2008 this was in BowesRd / Brownlow Rd the two pictures that is on the notice shows me at 07:24:30 in the boxed junction and a second picture 15 seconds later at 07:24:45 zoomed in beyond the boxed junction.
Since this is a three laned road before the junction merging into two (I was in the right hand lane, which can go straight on or turn right) with the traffic from the centre lane not merging to the left like they are supposed to in this situation and the road in the left lane being clear for at least 6 car lengths surely this means the way ahead is clear.
Is it easy to request the video evidence to view so you can defend yourself?
The two pictures provided are no way good enough as it shows me already in the junction in the first picture and out of it in the second. My understanding was it offence to enter if YOU believe the round is not clear ahead BEFORE you enter.
What is deemed the road ahead not clear?
In the first photo it clearly shows the left lane clear
What constitutes stopping in the box legal terms (do the wheel stop moving for set amount of time)?
I’m not sure.
Is the flow of traffic not taken into account (what if I thought I should turn right at the junction then changed my mind a decided to continue forward)? I can’t believe that these PCN’s are allowed to be taken out of context and that they can send you such insufficient evidence to justify it.
Any help with my queries/rant would be appreciated
Thanks,
regards,
Makk
May 7, 2008 at 10:27 am |
First an update on my posting dated April 8th 2008, which may also be relevant to Makk above.
I wrote to Haringey council requesting further evidence that an offence had been committed. Also pointing out that i considered the original PCN defective. I have today received a letter from Haringey stating :
“The video evidence that we hold does not clearly show this contravention. In the circumstances therefore the PCN has been cancelled”.
Makk asks above “What constitutes stopping in the box legal terms”. I’m not sure, but as he states the actual legal offence is roughly along the lines of “entering the box when you don’t expect the exit to be clear”, there isn’t as far as I am aware an offence of stopping in a box, though it may come under some general heading of causing an obstruction.
So Makk,
1) ask to see the video evidence
2) check the PCN is valid, in y case they had the mail merge wrongly set up, and didn’t correctly state how much would be payable if the charge were not paid within 28 days.
May 9, 2008 at 3:28 pm |
I have received a PCN from Hammersmith and Fulham for stopping in a box junction. if I appeal and it fails will I then have to pay £120 fine instead of £60. Also, there is only 1 photograph of my car on the PCN so how do they know my car had actually stopped rather than just moving slowly in the queue of traffic?
regards
Chris
May 14, 2008 at 12:56 pm |
I recently received a PCN like many others at the box junction at South Road/St. Joseph’s Rd. I stopped at the entrance as the exit was not clear and then when the white van in front of me moved off on the other side of the box, I started to cross. However the van suddenly stopped as the pedestrian lights turned red and I was trapped. I have been doing research on the net and found your website very helpful. I followed up on the Ealing council report that was mentioned by someone and also found the following on the Council website:
15.2 Schemes requiring authority
15.2.1 South Road/St Joseph’s Drive junction
This location is currently problematic. A yellow box was installed in order to ease the exit of cars from St Joseph’s Drive but this does not assist traffic in the main road and, because of the high number of violations by drivers, has become the source of many complaints. It is proposed to tighten the radii of the kerbs on each side of the junction Joseph’s Drive and South Road, so reducing the width of entry. The yellow box would then be reduced and allow, at 14m, at least 4m extra queuing space between the box and the pelican crossing. It also improves pedestrian safety by reducing the crossing distance. The cost of these carriageway and kerb works is estimated at £9 000″
Do you know if this work has been done and are they trying to pay for this work with PCNs?!!
The same report states that if the pedestrian crossing were moved to the south side of this junction then the need for the yellow box would be eliminated as cars could emerge from St. Josephs Rd when the pedestrian crossing was in use. This would be a the cost of one less parking space on South Rd.!
I also found this from the minutes of a southall area committee meeting in Sept. 2007:
The Chairman stated that the ‘Yellow Box Junction on South Road at the junction with St. Josephs Road’ is badly designed and drivers are becoming trapped in the yellow box. The Panel noted that a total of 2339 Penalty Charge Notices were issued at this location in June 2007. It was agreed that the design of the ‘Yellow Box Junction on South Road at the junction with St. Josephs Road’, which is trapping in motorists, is examined with ward councillors involved in the review process, that an update is reported back to the next meeting and included as a standing item in the Southall Issues Report until further notice. SI/CT
A January 2008 meeting of the same committee stated the the junction should be reviewed and amended.
I have asked to see video footage of my alleged contravention but any other help you can give would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your website!
Desiree
May 16, 2008 at 11:36 am |
Be aware that the highway code allows you to stop in a box junction IF the exit is not blocked, ie clear. PEople defending this often don’t realise this and it should be defended more vigorously. If I can find the referernce I’ll post it. Or can someone else?
May 19, 2008 at 8:48 am |
I have just received a PCN for stopping at a yellow box in colliers wood (near burger king). I stopped because the traffic lights changed. Has anyone else got caught here and is it a ‘legal box’ ?
May 20, 2008 at 7:15 am |
Out of all the money boxes in the UK, I have received two PCNs from the one on the St Jospeph/South (Southall/Ealing) road one.
I successfully appealed the first one, but the second has been rejected.
I have also managed to miss the 28 day (by a week) time limit to appeal to the PATAS service – should I still send in the appeal anyway, or is it too late now?
This junction is just designed to catch out law abiding citizens and nothing more… my rear wheels were about a foot inside the box, because the other side only has about 1 and 3/4 length of car space before a set of pelican crossings.
Any help in my situation would be massively appreciated (forms/appeals etc..)
May 21, 2008 at 1:32 pm |
I received a PCN from Ealing Council for stopping in a yellow box on the junction of South Road & Cambridge road in Southall. From the pictures they have sent to me, I am unable to see whether I actually stopped in the box and have requested to see the video footage.
I attach here the satellite picture of the box junction. From the picture, it looks like one side of the box goes quite a way past the junction.
Can you please let me know if this box is in agreement with the approved markings required for a box junction.
Thanking you in advance.
Sangeeta
I only have a couple of days left before the charge goes up, so I truly appreciate a response as soon as possible, please.
May 21, 2008 at 1:36 pm |
Sorry, forgot to add the satellite picture.
Link:
Thanks
Sangeeta
May 30, 2008 at 6:33 pm |
this is the Cambridge Rd/South Rd google map link, its in Houslow (I am hoping it will appear in the website link or below). appreciate any views from anybody that has been enforced against on this junction.
*http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=51.510194,-0.376175&s
May 30, 2008 at 11:21 pm |
Hi Sangeetha
I have received a PCN for the same box junction. Planning to appeal. Did you appeal? What was the outcome. Please keep informed.
Thanks.
June 1, 2008 at 6:21 am |
I can confirm that an appeal re a PCN issued for South Road / St Joseph’s Drive Southall (simply based on the two previous cases where PATAS ruled against Ealing Council because the yellow box is illegally marked) results in the Council withdrawing the PCN. Many thanks to this website for the assistance rendered.
Media interest is rising – see the “Media frenzy” post on 29 May and also see Daily Mail article 30 May 08 “Highway robbery is costing motorists millions” in which they argue that if the councils continue to issue PCNs when they know the yellow box is illegal (which Ealing appears to be doing) then this is tantamount to fraud: “unjust enrichment”. It seems to me that there is a moral case that the council should repay *all* fines levied at the illegal junction – perhaps someone should initiate a class action ?
June 5, 2008 at 5:34 pm |
Hi,
I got a PCN today from TFL (PCN 31entering and stopping in a box junction). I feel that this is a bit unfair because as I was following the cars in front, the lights 300 yards ahead went red, therefore making the traffic stop again. At no point did I block another vehicle from passing me because of the angle of the road at Archway Road/Shepherds Hill.
On what grounds can I contest? The photographs do show me been in the box junction for 60secs. As stated I never blocked another vehicle.
Brendan
June 5, 2008 at 7:51 pm |
Hi, My father recieved a PCN in the post last week. The PCN relates to the money box junction on the South Road/St Josephs Drive. We had a death in the family so decided to pay the ticket as we didnt want to be put in a predicament of forgetting to pay for it.
Is there any advice or anything we can do to get our money back.
Many thanks
June 11, 2008 at 6:32 pm |
Andrew,
Would it be possilble to send upload copys of documents for your appeal for the PCN in south road, Southall
Many thanks
June 12, 2008 at 11:08 am |
I have received a fine for stopping in the yellow box at the crossroads of Battersea Rise and Northcote Road and would be grateful if you could give me any help on appealing this. Like others I could not see around the corner to see if the exit was clear, when the lights changed and I moved forward the raffic was free flowing and I would have been able to exit the yellow box had the vehicle in front of me not stopped abruptly because of pedestrians running across the road.
Great site by the way.
Many thanks
Best regards
June 12, 2008 at 4:46 pm |
Hi, just received a ‘nice’l letter from Transport of London stating that I have broken the Law in that I have ‘entered and stopped in a box junction when prohibited’, the shame of it! The camera is situated in ‘Peckham High Street / Peckham Bus station…how nice!
The is a nice little pic of my company car which is in the box junction crawling upto the car in front of mine. Question is, how long does my car have to be in the box for before the camera does it’s bit? As you can clearly see, I am quite a distance from the car in front of me craling up to it to get out of the box junction.
Looking carefully at the picture, the green light is still illuminated on the traffic light so I can still move!!
Is this Mr Livingstone and his nice people doing us with more funds to pay out?
Please can you give your advice as to how to proceed with this daft letter/request?
All the very best to you………………………Justin Rigby
June 12, 2008 at 6:33 pm |
Hi there, may I first say great site! Yes really require your help, I have received a PCN from TFL, contravention code: 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited. I live in Ipswich and was on a trip to London. Having lived in London for 5years i am used to the usual traffic chaos, however I really didn’t see this one coming! The alleged contravention offence took place at the Lewisham Way/Parkfield Rd junction. I am not familar with this area of London, so I can’t really see a picture in my head of it, but know this (I did not intentionally break the law) I have been sent 2 pics, 1 picture shows me sitting on the edge of the yellow box, my whole car in the yellow area, the 2nd picture shows aclose up of my number plate, which appears to look like a closer image of the 1st pic. The time difference between each pic is 17secs. I am bumper to bumper with the car in front, and there is one car bumper to bumper behind me, also in the y/box area. I am blocking no cars from passing, I don’t know this junction and the pic is very small, I assume it is a cross roads & not a T-Junc, either way there are no cars battling to get around me. I cannot remember the feeling of being uncomfortable on any of the journey i made through london that day. I am cetain that this was a very tricky junction to negoiate, and that I made a judgement to move forward, as traffic was moving nicely, when suddenly the traffic stopped ahead in the distance and caused a backlog, a few seconds later and the junction would have been clear. I do not want to pay this fine as I believe it to be a scam. Please could you help, whats the inital step I should do next? I have not sent anything back yet. Letter received today 12/6/08. I have read bits of your site, is this junction legal? whats the next step? This site is very much appreciated. I feel like I am a victim of a huge political scam. I look forward to your earliest reply. Simon Chisholm.
June 17, 2008 at 3:19 pm |
Hi Great site. Someone from pepipoo site recommended this for research for a PCN i have received from Hammersmith & Fulham at New Kings Road / Bagleys Lane Junction.
I am going to request a video as the picture on the PCN is completely useless to see if a i did commit an offense.
Any advice or standard letters to write would be most helpful.
Regards
Shaun
June 20, 2008 at 11:24 am |
Hello,
I received a PCN for “Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibitted in The Broadway/Herbert Road, Southall (3) on 31/05/2008 at 18:19.” Date of Notice: 16/06/2008.
I have recently moved to London, and am not aware of the “Yellow box junction Survellance”. Having recieved the PCN, and researching on this, I googled to your website.
That day, the trafic ahead was clear and moving along as I approached the ‘Money box’. Between me entering the box and crossing the other end of the box, the driver joining the broadway from Herbert Road decided he has enough time to squeeze in, squeezed past the yellow box where the snail paced traffic was coming to a halt. I slowed/paused to avoid a collision. But then as the car ahead came to halt there was enough space for me to move bumper to bumper to possibly clear the Yellow box. Not 100% sure If I cleared. In both the pictures (15 seconds apart) on the PCN, I can see the left end of my car quite close to the right end of the car ahead. If I were sationary at the same place as in first picure, the second picture should have the yellow line in it. No yellow line can be seen on the second picture (close up). Both the pictures appear to be taken by the same camera by zooming in.
In the first picture on the PCN, the car behind mine also moved in the yellow box as with normal traffic flow. The dirver of that car is probably aware of the ‘Money box issue’ and was smart enough to turn and enter Herbert Road avoiding stopping on the yellow box.
I am pissed off seeing the PCN and am feeling vulnerable.
Please advise how I should go about it.
Thanks,
Krishna
June 20, 2008 at 4:11 pm |
Hi
I have received a penalty charge notice for contravention code 31 entering and stopping in a box junciont when prohibited. the fine is £120. this is the first I have heard of such fines so feel v. annoyed. Is it right that they can make such large fines for such an offense. The photo shows that just my rear two wheels are in the box.
Also, I cannot remember the exact circumstances, but I am a cautious driver and my recollection is that I was slow moving but not stopped. They have sent me a static photo so I cannot see if I was moving or stopped to see if their evidence is right. can I ask for more information? I don’t think my brake lights are on which is one sign that I was moving.
I would not have entered without a reasonable expection that I could make it through in time before the lights changed, as noted above only my rear two wheels are in the box.
thanks for your help
Sarah
June 22, 2008 at 2:27 pm |
Hello
I was photographed by the Lewisham Way/Parkfield Road camera on 7th April. I sent in representations and they were ignored: I had to chase TfL for a response, and they sent me a “Notice of Rejection” which was clearly a form letter, as it did not refer to my claim that the junction was illegal under TSRGD 2003. They also sent me someone else’s Notice of Rejection by mistake in the same envelope, and hers was practically the same as mine!
I would be glad of some help with my appeal. I am in the process of modifying your appeal documents for High Street, junction with Avenue Road, Southall to match this junction. In exchange, I will make the resulting appeal document publicly available along with the others.
Many thanks in advance for your help: I look forward to your e-mail as I only have a little over a week to respond.
Best regards,
J.
June 22, 2008 at 2:56 pm |
With regard to my post above, I have a concern that the T-junction at Lewisham Way/Parkfield Road is a) on a one-way system and b) has a bus lane. Do either of these considerations weaken (or strengthen!) my appeal case?
Many thanks!
J.
June 24, 2008 at 1:32 pm |
Im trying to find out if the christchurch / priory road box junction complies with the regulations?
Can anyone help at all? I have taken a picture of the google map of this, and can send it over.
June 26, 2008 at 9:28 am |
I have just received today a PCN for the High Street/Avenue Road box junction. I intend to appeal it following advice from here. is this box still illegal? Also one reason i was stopped in the box is because some pratt pulled out in front of me forcing me to stop hard. leaving me one inch behind him in the box.
Box seems to be incorrectly drawn, is this still the case? i am using these two points as my appeal.
Mark
July 3, 2008 at 5:08 pm |
I have received a PCN for parking on a double yellow line. however i have noticed that the contravention code 02 was used.
Parked, loading or uloading i a restricted st. where…
i belive the code 01 should have been used:
Parked in a restriced street during prescribed hours (double yellow line) – this is exactly what the council states in their parking contravention codes.
Can this be a ground for appeal?
thanks
July 9, 2008 at 12:06 pm |
My other half has 2 box junction pcn’s from Ealing Council. 1st South Road / Cambridge Road. 2nd (2 minutes later) The Broadway / Herbert Road. Have got notice of rejection today for South Road / Cambridge Road and am now expecting the second to follow shortly.
Will use your appeal letter for Cambridge Road. Any ideas for Herbert Road? Does it comply. Any help appreciated.
July 18, 2008 at 12:35 pm |
Hi, I received a pcn from Ealing council for being in the yellow box on South Road/St Josep’s Drive on 19 June ‘08. They have sent 2 pictures THREE seconds apart and my car is already 3/4’s out of the yellow box. The only reason I stopped is because the big white transit van as shown in the picture also stopped infront of me. The lights must have gone red so there is nowhere else left to go. The pics show no vehicle turning out of St Josep’s Drive in the same dircetion as me, and you can see that if any on coming vehicles were trying to turn right into St Josep’s Drive there is no way i would be blocking anyone because i am bearly still in the box. I emailed Ealing Council and requested to see video footage of this alleged contravention. They then sent me a form to fill out and send requseting a time and day of viewing, but have stated that “if an appointment is granted, it would be for viewing only purposes. The Council is not prepared to discuss the penalty charge noticeat the appointment.”
I have heard that yellow boxes at t junctions should only cover half the road (the half where the side road meets the main road) and this one goes right across the road which is apparently not enforceable because it’s painted wrong. Is this enough of a reason to have the pcn cancelled even though I am on the half where it should be painted. And is it true that the corners of the yellow box should be touching the kerb.
Please can you tell me everything I can use against them as i have been told that althouugh I will not be able to discuss the matter with the person who shows me the video, I can however get a ticket and wait in the queue and speak to someone at the counter as thses Daylight Robbers are in the same building.
Sorry for the long winded message. Please help. I do not want to be robbed of my hard earned cash just to fill there pay packets with bonuses which they treat themselves to.
July 18, 2008 at 1:00 pm |
I have received a PCN from”Transport for London” today (18th July).
Thay charge that on Friday 11th July I contravened code 31 by “Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited”.
They provide 3 photos on their site – 1. 10:56:10 in the box 2. 10:56:15 also in the box 3. 10:56:19 out of the box, close up showing the number plate. None of the photos appear to show who is driving. THey only provide two of the photos with the PCN.
They tell me if I pay up in 14 days the fine is £60, or £120 thereafter. I have 28 days to pay the latter amount or face a further increase to £180 and a county court summons.
The vehicle is not mine, it is my partner’s, and they have written to her not me. I was the driver at the time of the incident however, and was alone in the vehicle.
The incident occured at Archway/Shepherds Hill (London) at 10:56 hrs on 11/7/2008.
Look forward to getting some help as I am on a very tight budget.
July 21, 2008 at 12:04 pm |
Hi Mark,
I recall hearing about these issues on a radio program on Radio 4 and thinking how completely unjust these boxes were. Recently my wife recieived a PCN from Waltham Forest council for a an infringement that occured on Saturday 5th July at the intersection of Leytonstone High Road and Bush Road in Leytonstone. My wife had been waiting at the Bush Road intersection, when the traffic on the opposite side of the had begun to move; travelling into the GreenMan Roundabout. The lights at the Bush Road intersection turned green and the traffic in front of her began to move as the oppostie side of the box junction was clear. As both sets of lights were green, she progressed into the intersection but before clearing the junction box, the traffic came to a premature halt, stopped by the, now red lights at GreenMan Roundabout. Unable to proceed, her vehicle became blocked in the junction resulting in the infringement. My wife is a very safe and legal driver and would not have knowingly have disobeyed the law. Could you please offer some advise as to how to proceed as I would like to appeal this PCN.
Kindest Regards
Mike
July 23, 2008 at 4:56 pm |
Hi,
I have received a PCN for being in the box by about 50 cm. My reg was only got further on down the road , the camara has not got my reg will in the box. In thye first PCN, the alledged offence was 5 seconds after another camera ahead of me took my reg. I have contested and been refused but now the offense time is still the same on the PCN, but thealledged offense on the cameras show an offence a minute before. What is the best line of defence. Sorry about being vague, but the Councils must read your forum.
Thanks
Nick
August 7, 2008 at 5:15 pm |
Hi my dad has received a PCN for stopping in the box junction at Gt Eastern Rd/Curtain Street. The traffic was flowing when he entered but as he got to the other side we noticed our lane was merging into the second lane as there were roadworks. Is there anyway we can appeal?
August 19, 2008 at 1:30 pm |
What a shit site! The amount of questions for help being posted by everybody, pretty much on the same PCNs. And not one decent reply by ‘moneyboxjunction’ as to how to go about filing a standard appeal against Contravention Code 31s, save one reply at the top of the posts about a 28 day clause.
Absolutely crap site, shitty blog!. They can’t be bothered to reply because they don’t have anything. Do not fall on false hopes with this unhelpful site, look elsewhere people!!
August 19, 2008 at 11:13 pm |
Do you cover instances of people being booked at redundant dropped kerbs on a Sunday morning between 0800 and 10.00 – triple garages – not used access still possible.
Ta.
September 12, 2008 at 3:08 pm |
Hi There,
Have received a PCN for £60 today for High Road Leytonstone / Bush Road E11 . I fly to new york tomorrow and would be out of the 14 day period. Any advice would be nice?
Mart.
September 23, 2008 at 7:30 am |
On my two PCN photos in my fine letter, they have got the times the wrong way round and this shows falsification of evidence. Can I fine them £5000 like they can fine me?
October 4, 2008 at 10:25 am |
Hi, (I already posted this in the Comments of the Ealing Box Junctions story before finding this help me section)
Great site…I also hope someone might be able to advise me.
I’ve read through most posts, and it seems my problem may be a bit more complicated.
I am a law abiding citizen and do not cause problems neither do I park inconsiderately or drive dangerously.
The Broadway/Herbert Rd Junction Southall (3)
I moved house a year and a half ago April 2007, Car tax was due in September 2007 having realised at the time that I had not updated my Drivers License Details; I did not receive a reminder for renewal of car tax. I then phoned DVLA and updated my drivers license details and assumed (a bad thing to do) that this would also reflect on my car registration.
This year as September approached and my car tax was due I again did not receive a reminder, again this was because the car registration was still at my old address, my drivers licence was at current address. Just a bad slip up by me, how could I have not updated the Car Reg address. I phoned DVLA up and asked them why I had not received the Renewal Notice, I was looking forward to renewing it online, I mentioned that I had updated my drivers licence details, I was then told that its because I had not updated my V5 Registration Doc, I asked if they would update my details over the phone and was told, that I had to send the original document in with the new details on it, this is the only way that the Registration can be updated to avoid fraud I was told. I then went to the post office and bought a new tax disc and sent my v5 doc off to update my log book address registration.
The house I was previously in was rented, and I met the landlord about two weeks ago and he told me that the house had been empty since I had left and that there had been a lot of mail, mostly junk, come through for me.
He offered me the keys to go and check the letters. This was on 25th Sept. It was then that I had found the PCN for an offence on 24/03/08 with PCN dated 03/04/08, There was also another letter Charge Certificate for the same offence, Charge Certificate Dated 14/05/08
There was still another letter
Order for recovery – Unpaid Penalty Charge
Dated 15/07/08
Asking me to pay within 21 days
Or
File a statutory declaration on the enclosed form
and have it signed by a commissioner for oaths.
The only grounds on which a declaration can be made are:
277: You did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice (for a traffic contravention)
278: You made representations about PCN to the council of the London Borough of Ealing, within 28 days of service of the notice and did not receive a rejection notice
279: You appealed to the parking & traffic Adjudicator against the councils decision to reject your representations, within 28 days of the service of the rejection notice but have had no response to your appeal.
You must only select one of the above three grounds
If you need more time to file your statutory declaration write immediately to the Traffic Enforcement Centre
If you do nothing, your possessions may be removed and sold to pay this charge.
I just opened this last night (2nd October) and was looking into it today, The 21 days for the Order for Recovery (Bailiffs) letter finished on 4th August
Can anyone help?
October 19, 2008 at 9:37 pm |
Hi there,
I’ve been looking at your site and really useful it is too – thank you. I wonder if you can help. On the 28th of May I received a PCN from TfL for ‘entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited’ on Camberwell New Rd / Bolton Crescent. Initially I sent back the form saying that no contravention had occured and asking for proof via CCTV footage. Two weeks ago TfL replied and said that we either had to pay for a copy or we are beholden to a time of their choosing. Neither of which seem fair. In reply and after reading through your web site we have returned the PATAS form stating that ‘the box junction is not as prescribed by the T S regulations 2002…’. Do we have a chance for a successful appeal and what do you think is our best option now? Also with council issued PCN’s if they do not accept you appeal you are still offered a 14 day discount period, TfL do not offer this. This seems grossly unfair as those who question the charge are therefore atomatically liable for a higher charge. Is this legal?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work.
Ivan Cullen (exasperated)
October 25, 2008 at 7:01 pm |
Hi Mark,
I am another victim of the Islington Liverpool Road YBJ and on reading your views on these YBJ’s I’m going to send an appeal on the grounds of the junction being unlawful.
I travel this route about 5 times a year as I live in Wales and only work in London rarely. I always travel this road just after the Con-Charge finishes and the traffic is light.
This seems the perfect site for a camera on a YBJ as the traffic-lights are only about 16-20m from the YBJ and their cycle is very short. Also the side street leading onto it from the left is a narrow, quite street. It is obvious why they film this one as there must be a non-stop volley of cars getting hung up there. They’ve probably made a short traffic signal cycle for this very reason. I worked out that the council could potentially earn £25000/day from this junction alone!
My Notice shows the back half of my car in the junction for 7 seconds but unless they have evidence otherwise there could have been a hundred reasons for this like someone walking out in front of the traffic ahead causing a sudden stop. Although I don’t lie, I also don’t drive recklessly and in fact I am a bit slow sometimes through town, but this YBJ is deliberately on camera because of it’s proximity to the traffic lights and I think that’s unjust.
What is also unjust are the hundreds of YBJ’s I see every year with traffic blocking them in busy streets that are not on camera!
I wander if they have raised the money for the Olympics yet.
So has it been proven yet that this junction is unlawful? And am I wasting my time rejecting the Penalty notice.
Any info would be great.
Thanks for this site
Fergus Davidson.
November 6, 2008 at 1:18 pm |
Hi mark,
I am outraged. On the 04th October I received a PCN for entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited at Priory Road / Christchurch Street. I have already had my first appeal rebuked. There are pedestrians in front of my car, so I had to stop in the box junction as to not run them over! They have stated that there is video evidence that the obstruction was there when I entered the box junction – is it worth writing back to demand the footage? In which case, will lambeth council charge me for this? Plus, the pedestrians look like they have just stepped off the curb, and the box junction is large – how is this all possible?
Any help would be more than appreciated. I am so angry and sick of wasting my money on being a safe driver.
Best regards,
Katherine S
November 11, 2008 at 5:29 pm |
Hi
I have file a N244 after my stat dec was declined. I am due in court tomorrow. The timeline is as follows . Feb 2007 alledged incident in a bus lane . Within 14 days requested viewing. Took 3 months to give 2 day notice of the viewing 12pm on a Wednesday. Called to say this was unreasonable and can they give me more time.Heard nothing for 8 months ’til baliff on the door. Council claim they sent out order for recovery Dec 2007. Never received also no proof /copy it was sent from them.
Is there a reasonable statute of limitation to which the council need to respond . Surely 3 months to wait for a viewing ;then 6-8 months for an order to recover is too long. Also if my N244 hearing is rejeected can I appeal the original PCN or will it be back to the baliffs Thanks
November 11, 2008 at 5:56 pm |
hi mark.
i recieved a pcn for entering and stopping at a yellow box juction at eardley rd SW16 whilst turning left onto greyhound lane. The pcn was issued on the 11/01/08 which we contested. We recieved lambeths letter on the 05/11/08 stating that we still have to pay the pcn. How long until the pcn expires ? I thought 10 months to reply would invalidate there pcn. A friend of mine had there pcn cancelled due to reasons associated with legislative matters. Any idea of what they could be ? there pcn was isued under the same circumstances and location as mine.
thanks.
November 23, 2008 at 1:02 pm |
Hi,
I have just recieved a PCN for entering a box on Turnpike Lane N8. I have been away from London for years, and have not driven there for some time, not that this is a defence, so I was unaware this was now in force. However, reading this site, am I right in thinking that if I challenge the PCN on the basis that it is not specific as to which bow on Turnpike Lane I entered (Google Earth appears to show there are 3) Also, it says I have 14/28 days ‘beginning with the date of this notice’ Which I am led to believe is not applicable, also the time on the PCN is 18.28 but the time on the pics is 18.29, I am sure I was in the box at 18.28 but is this again a technicality that may be worth exploring? Anyway, would love to know your opinion, please help a non-Londoner!
Thanks
November 29, 2008 at 1:36 pm |
I received a PCN dated 14th November for an alleged contravention on the 28th of September from Transport for London, showing photographs of me apparently stopped in a box junction in Archway Road / Shepherds Hill. I represented against it having done a quick bit of research and finding out that under the London Local Authorities Act 2003 they have 28 days from the date of the ‘contravention’ to issue a PCN; it took them about 45 days.
I’ve had a letter today rejecting my representation, stating that I’m being charged under the London Local Authorities Act 1990-2003 and that there is no time limit for serving penalty charge notices. Is it worth me appealing and risking having to pay the full £120 fine or should I just pay up the £60 ‘discounted’ amount? I can’t find anything about the Act that I’m being charged under anywhere, and all that the rejection letter says is that ‘14 days is what we would like to go by depending on the time it takes for DVLA to respond’.
Is there a ‘definitive’ time limit for sending out PCNs for box junction contraventions?
December 3, 2008 at 4:33 pm |
Hi,
I was sent a PCN for stopping in a box junction in Drayton Park. I appealed and the council has rejected my appeal. I would like to send you my appeal letter along with the original PCN and the rejection and would appreciate your help in making the decision whether to go ahead with the PATAS appeal.
As you’ll see once I send the pics, it is only my front wheels in the box as someone turned out of Horsell road in front of me, taking up the last bit of space in the lane ahead. They only provided me with this pic in the rejection letter and I think it might be good grounds on which to appeal to PATAS. I am also not blocking the junction at all.
Please let me know if this is OK and what email address I can send the documents to.
Thanks in advance.
December 7, 2008 at 5:36 pm |
I have received a charge certificate from TFL for the alleged contravention of entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited, this was on gt Eastern Street/Curtain road.
The charge certificate says that this contravention was detected using an enforcement camera, however no pictures were attched.
Also, I did not receive any previous letters.
I am now stuck with afine of 180, when only last week i was put out of a job.
I need some help on how to react to this. PLEASE.
THANKS
December 7, 2008 at 11:09 pm |
Hi there,
I received a PCN for entering stopping on a yellow box junction on the A205 near Broadwalk, SE3. TfL are being shambolic and making it difficult for me to appeal (I keep asking to see the vid, they keep sending me unrelated letters back!).
Do you know if anyone else has ever had a problem with this box, and whether the markings are legal? (They seem a bit short to me, don’t reach the corners of the kerb closely enough)
Thanks
December 14, 2008 at 7:16 am |
Like Ian Savage post dated November 29 2008 I received a PCN from TfL for an alleged offence 31 at the Archway/Shepherds Hill box junction on 19/11/2008 at 17:13. I represented against it on the grounds that I had not stopped because the two still shots initially provided showed that my car had moved forward some 10 feet during the 11 seconds between photos. Thus my average speed was 0.62 mph. TfL rejected my representation and claimed that their video evidence showed my car stationary for five(!) seconds, with only the back half of the in the box, then moving clear of the box by six seconds later. They sent a third still shot purportedly showing the other end of the five second stationary period, however my VRN is not legible in either of those two pictures. I am considering going to adjudication, and have asked for the video footage. I hope I don’t have to waste time attending a showing and that the relevant bit can be sent out on a disk, but I suspect they will come up with data protection bollocks reasons for not being able to do so. I noted an earlier post questioning the legality of the particular box. Is there a view on that?
Excellent site – keep up the good work against the forces of darkness.
January 5, 2009 at 12:08 pm |
My husband was sent a PCN for Entering and stopping stopping in a box junction. My husband replied saying that the contravention did not occur as I was driving the vehicle on that day.
I therefore appealed against it as I was the driver on that particular day of the alleged contravention. The PCN did not state where the contravention occured but all it said that camera 504 have images of the vehicle being in the yellow box junction.On going to the Parking section at croydon council to view the footage, I was able to verify that it occured at the junction of london and Benshan lane.There was road works going on ahead at that time but there was no advance warning sign put up to notify motorists. I was at a set of traffic lights at Bensham Lane and when the lights turned green and i found my egress clear I started to move.The vehicles in front of me came to a abrupt halt due to the vehicles coming from the side road (left) hence the actions of the motorist ahead forced me into this yellow box.
My husband wrote to Croydon council saying that the contravention did not occur as he was not the driver at that time. He furthermore said that I was driving on that day and I appealed against the decision on the following grounds:
1. As the location of the contravention was not specified, (as there are many sets of road markings purporting to be a yellow box on London Rd croydon, it cannot be enforced as croydon Council is required by section 4 (5) (b) of the London Authority act 2003 to accurately specify in the PNC as to where it is located
2. The line marking out the junctionwere faded hence did not conf orm to official guidleines COP CPTE paragraph ( 7)
3. The Contravention code on the PNC (COP CPTE section 2.25 should state 31j (Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited) but the pNC did not state the alphabet ‘j’ .
Moreover this box junction is sandwiched between 2 set of traffic which deviates from official guidelines. I e mailed the Authority asking if they had an approval to have this box junction but I have received no response till date.
January 5, 2009 at 12:10 pm |
I shall appreciate an immediate response as the Hearing is on the 13th jan 2009..
Thanks in anticipation
mina rodricks
January 12, 2009 at 1:36 pm |
After driving for 25 years and more than 400,000 miles all over the world with no significant problems and living for 15 years in Southall and crossed over the The Broadway/Herbert Road yellow box markings at least a 1000 times I have now been fined with 2 PCN fines on the 26/12/2008 boxing day and the 03/01/2009. The numbers tell me that there are issued more than 1317 PCN fines from 26/12/2008. And someone tell me that the Ealing Council is deciding that 1317 car drivers all of a sudden are incapable of driving on The Broadway/Herbert Road crossing ? This to me comes over as robbery of the common man for the sake of filling up their coffers. That in such a time as this, where most people are struggling to get buy because of the credit crunch that is effecting all of us. This 1317 PCN fines result in 1317 x £120 = £158,040 or when paid in time 1317 x £60 = £79,020. This is outrageous and I am going to write some letters to Rt Hon Gordon Brown, Mayor Boris Johnson, and Rt Hon Geoff Hoon and the Councillors of the Bourough of Ealing about the appalling vexating behaviour of Ealing Council. I am not taking it ! If anyone can guide me with this, I will be grateful, I am starting from today 12 January 2009. I await for any good advice and will apply this for the common sake of citizens of London. Thank you.
January 20, 2009 at 2:15 am |
Hi,
I have recieved a PCN for entering a box junction in Turnpike Lane. I am in the right hand lane but I only stopped to give way at the last minute to a bus which forcibly crossed over into my lane as the left lane was blocked, by another bus! The image shows the bus crossing into my lane which otherwise would have been clear. Does this sound like grounds for appeal against the charge?
Thank you, any advice would be great,
James
January 26, 2009 at 12:39 pm |
Our van has been caught in a junction box also at New Kings rd J/w Bagleys. Can I fight this ?? I think you might know the grounds to fight this on .I really would appreciate any help given.
February 7, 2009 at 10:10 am |
Hi,
I hope someone can help. I’ve just received a reminder letter today from Newham Council stating that i have not paid a PCN for entering and stopping in a box junction (letter dated 04/02/09).
The problem is, i DIDN’T receive the original PCN so wasn’t even aware that i contravened or needed to pay anything.
The letter states that the offense had occurred on 20/12/08 at the Barking Road junction with Wellington Road and was caught by camera operator/Parking attendant 1126.
The problem is that as its a reminder letter the charge is now £120(!) and i don’t even have a copy of the original PCN to verify whether this is true or not. I vaguely recall being in the area at the time.
Is there anything i can do to challenge this? If so, on what grounds?
Can i still request a video evidence of this offense? Not clear whether they caught me on CCTV or not to have video evidence as the letters states ‘ camera operato/parking attendant’. Could just be a photo.
The letter states that i have now 14 days to pay the £120 or make formal representation otherwise i increases to £180 and opportunity to make formal representations will end. I’ve never decided to challenge before and would just pay but i think us motorists have been taken for a ride to long and am keen to challenge if i have any chance of winning.
Any help/advice would be most appreciated.
Regards,
Manik
February 12, 2009 at 2:25 pm |
I have received a PCN from Hammersmith & Fulham for the alleged contravention of ‘Entering and stopping in box junction when prohibited’ at Talgarth Road/Butterwick on the 30/01/2009.
The image shows a close-up shot of my number plate and part of the rear window, but nothing of the car’s position or whether I was actually at that junction.
How should I proceed?
I would be most grateful for your advice.
Kathy
March 5, 2009 at 3:40 pm |
I got a pcn on the Liverpool Road yellow box. I’ve read on here that some people have tried to challenge their PCNs for this junction on the grounds that the yellow box isn’t painted up to the kerb. Can anyone let me know if an appeal has been won using this argument please?
March 11, 2009 at 5:24 pm |
TfL simply ignored my written request and a reminder letter to see the video evidence of my alleged offence at the Archway/Shepherds Hill box junction in Highgate.
See my above post of 14 December 2008.
Instead, the mindless machine has rolled on and I’m now having to write to the Northampton Traffic Enforcement Centre to ask them to hold back the bailiffs and help me get a response from TfL and its band of highwaymen.
Has anybody else had this experience?
March 13, 2009 at 10:44 pm |
Hi just left a message (on the council page under Haringey) about a box junction in Haringey, which is probably not legal. So was wondering whether to make a test case, only problem is I’ve paid the reduced fine (CAB adviced it was worth paying and appealing, but having researched further, feel that will be construed as admitting liability), but am writing to head of parking services, asking for cheque not to be cashed as wish to appeal further. Advice please!
March 31, 2009 at 2:27 pm |
PCN for box junction at drayton park. They sent two images 16 seconds apart and it is my opinion they are the same image right down to the shadows off my van in the identical positions in both photographs. Road other side of the box clear as is clearly shown in image 1. Have appealed and will be taking legal advice but based in Scotland so English lawyer needed.
This is more than a mistake on their part something is not right here and i will take it all the way and if someone wants to get on board,great. Have delivered in London for years and know not to go into the boxes never mind sit for 16 seconds when the road is clear ahead.
April 30, 2009 at 11:01 am |
The waltham forest council send me a pcn for a box junction without the overleaf page for representations.
This box junction is at High road Leytonstone E11/ Bush road E11. I am not certain if it is a signpost to alert that a cctv camera is in use. Any advice please?
May 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm |
I am about to fight a PCN for entering a BJ outside the Peckham bus station, though I was not blocking any traffic, I am about to complete the PATAS form but would appreciate any help with it, and an opinion asto wether it is actually worth fighting, more info here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=40839
Many thanks, Lionel
May 18, 2009 at 3:11 pm |
All, I have not altered my driving style or frequency in any way recently and yet have been subjected to 4 (yes, 4!) seperate PCNs over about a 3 month period.
Reluctant as I was to pay any of these, I gleaned as much information as I could from websites such as this one, ticketfighter.co.uk etc.
I am happy to report that in 2 of the 4 cases, the relevant council (one which is particularly zealous in their unjust pursuit of the cash of naive road users, as reported widely here) either “waived” on first appeal or pulled out immediately prior to the PATAS hearing “due to staffing issues”.
In the third case TFL failed to record the make / model my motorcyle and incorrectly recorded the colour! (PCN for a parking ‘offence’ enforced via camera). Needless to say I pointed out this minor issue to them in my response – I have heard nothing since. What a joke.
In the fourth case, the council has written to me to request a further 14 days in order to “complete their investigations”. I am confident that this one will go no further either.
It is nothing short of scandalous that bodies that are solely created to serve you, me & the ordinary law-abiding public (and whose wages we pay)have been permitted to virtually steal from that public with often completely unlawful fines.
It is the fault of the government for allowing them to self-finance (= run riot) in this manner and ultimately our fault as a public to put up with this nonsense.
Gone are the days when public bodies could be expected to behave responsibly and in many ways,I pity the thousands (millions?) of road-users who fail to realise that and that out of fear or misplaced respect for authority pay these unjust stealth taxes without question.
May 18, 2009 at 4:32 pm |
Definitely appeal. I was sent a CCTV PCN. The council rejected my initial appeal, but I paid the £60 reduced fine, sent with a letter not accepting that I was at fault, and completed a form to parking appeals. I stated that one or 2 CCTV stills did not prove I had stopped in the JB,the car could be moving slowly given the very narrow time frame (literally seconds). Also the council wrongly stated that this particular JB had been approved by Dept of Transport (I had questioned its legality as the corners did not go right up to the kerbs as they should according to traffic regulations). But they were wrong as they cited a diffferent JB, not the one related to the PCN. I sent photos of the JB with the appeal as proof of questuinable validity. Before the appeal was heard, the council withdrew its case without giving any evidence. Parkings appeal says any money I paid the council now has to be returned. The whole process took a few months though.
May 18, 2009 at 4:38 pm |
I prepared months for the hearing about my 2 cases with all kinds of information regarding this. The council made sure that they had all the videos ready and when my appeal was turned down they also made sure that Refused was printed as fat as a printer can print on their letters of the refusal letter. As if they were saying Ha-ha, got ya anyways. The particular Yellow box that I perpetrated even though I had been over it hundreds of times in the past and never was fined is to my opinion now a net that works together with the traffic-lights that are fuzzy remote controlled from a distance so you will fall in that net whether you like it or not.
In both occasions I have been a little with my front of the car in the Yellow box not obstructing the traffic and the second one I was sitting 5 seconds, yes 5 seconds !!!!! in the box because the car in front of me did not move up quickly enough even though all traffic in front of the car was gone.
There is no room for mistakes. You shall pay ! Through your nose. So we can put up more camera’s to catch you. Where I live there are tons of camera’s. The lie of “this is for your safety” is not true. This is for getting ur money. Every 50-100 yards a camera and double that, is not about safety. You can’t tell us, that if you have Parking Attendants, Police and Neighbourhood controllers running everywhere that it is about safety. It is about stifling and controlling you as much we can. Looking at every little move you do. From the 100 camera’s that are given out there 40 are in Southall. As if Southall is such an unsafe place. Lies. Lies. Lies. Lies. Lies. I am living in Southall for 15 years. Been everywhere. On the big streets, in the small roads, under the tunnels, bridges, shops, restaurants, worship places, you name it. Walking, Driving, on the bus, in the taxi. Never had any problems regarding safety. So it is bull. We hardly read ANYTHING about Southall as a criminal place in the Ealing Leader. However there is the hypocritical attitude of the authorities who DO themselves set up traps for you so you can be prosecuted and caught ! So they can have nice buildings, computers, flashing lights on their desks and a paper-stream from here to Antarctica, security to kick you out the door, hypocritical faces behind closed doors and falsehood. Hiding behind a system that is collapsing, frantically trying to keep it up for the sake of self-preservation. A consciousness with steel plates in front of their head, pretending they never make a mistake themselves. Smite you where they can hurt you the most, except the things they promise they say they do, are not done.
Thanks for the rant I could do here.
Greetings to all who read this. Hope you will tell them who they really are if you experienced the same. Every democracy ends up in dictatorship. I really would like to know how they can sleep at night ? Anyone ?
May 19, 2009 at 9:58 am |
thank you Sue i shall follow your lead.
May 22, 2009 at 1:35 pm |
Hi there – I have appealed a PCN and am appealing to the PATAS lot…
I believe the box junction itself is illegal as it crosses a cycle lane – like the case in Waltham Forest.
I need quotes/references/previous cases!
Help!
Can you assist?
Thanks a million in advance,
Tom
July 20, 2009 at 11:54 am |
Hi
I have received 2 PCN’s however i have just bought a new car and the dealership have put the wring name on the reg doc’s therefore the PCN’s are addressed to the wrong name, will I have to pay these?
July 26, 2009 at 11:02 am |
Hello I have received a PCN from Camden Council July 09 stating that I entered a box junction in Shaftesbury Ave when prohibited. The notice shows a still pic of me in the box junction but the video evidence is unavalible from their web site. I need to see it to see if I was actually stopped and for how long.
Please can you offer assistance as I want to appeal.
Thanks.
August 14, 2009 at 10:58 am |
REFERRING TO MY POST TWO POSTS ABOVE:
PATAS had issued me with a court summons and have now unequivocally dropped the case. Suckers!
Good news for anyone caught in the box junction in Drayton Park.
October 13, 2009 at 8:46 am |
Hello, I have just rec’d a PCN from Transport for London stating I entered the box junction at Lewisham Way/Parkfield Road. I can see on the 2 photos they have incl I must have been moving, as I am in diff postions on the grid. I have phoned them to ask if I appealed and lost, would I be obliged to pay the full £120 which he said no, they would let me pay the 50% reduced fee. I never intentionally stop in a yellow box junction and have been doing this run several times lately. Do you know of any legal technicality I can quote, or should I ask for the video to show I am actually at a complete stop at some point? Thanks so much.
November 2, 2009 at 11:39 pm |
hi
i do have a PCN and have spent all evening reading up on useful sites like yours. Thank you. I just wondered if you were able to take a look at the Box junction at Brixton Road/Gresham Road, London SW9 and tell me whether you believe I could contest the PCN on the grounds that it is not drawn in accordance with the required regulations. I really cant afford to pay for this notice and i am careful about entering box junctions, but the timing of the traffic movement has caught me out…(i am right at the end of the YBJ but not in anyones/things way-although the full length of my audi is in the YBJ)!
November 23, 2009 at 9:43 pm |
just so others may be aware of the situation too.
My husband has been to view the video and -as i thought- i entered the junction box as the traffic was flowing freely. It was only the result of the bus (which had cleared the box when i entered) stopping infront of the YBJ and, therefore, also a car behind the bus which forced me to stop in the box. When my husband spoke to the TFL officer (they called him as he is the registered keeper) they advised him that they had viewed the tape and in their view the Penalty charge was justified. I doubted this only because i know how careful i try to be when at junctions-because it is a pain when others do it to me! Just letting you know that an impartial opinion/or wholistic view is not one that the officers at first point of call seem to take and so i am sending off an appeal for them to consider the cancellation of the PCN.
I just wonder how many other people will just be paying up -because, like me, they would have initially been too intimidated by the official nature of it all and the added time factor for all of this.
November 16, 2009 at 12:09 pm |
i have received a PNC notice dated 9 november and have called and emailed them requesting to see the video evidence when i asked them to suspend the notice till i have seen it they said they cant do that so i quoted the traffic management act 2004 they then said they will get back to me i have read lots of things that i can say to appeal against it i have seen the two photo’s of the offence and one of them my 2 front wheels were not in the box also does there have to be camera warning signs to warn me of a camera enforcment watching this junction in croydon road purley way plus croydon road is quite large do they have to put exactly where the offence took place as croydon road in purley way is quite vague please can you get back to me as soon a poss thankyou
November 16, 2009 at 2:26 pm |
hello again i have been to the location from where they say the offence took place and this junction is a 4 way junction the turning left has a devider in the middle and the box does go past this devider but ends halfway from the devider to the kerb so it is not touching the kerb at all is this an illegal box?? please please can you get back to me thankyou
November 23, 2009 at 8:24 pm |
Hi,
I have already sucessfully challenged Eailing council on 3 illegal yellow box junctions.
My dad got caught in box junction in Eailing.
The box junction is the Greenford road/Otter road.
I believe the box junction is illegal as the corners of the box do not meet the kerb.
I have already appealed to Eailing Council, and now am appealing to PATAS.
The PATAS hearing is this Friday, and surprisingly I have received Eailing councils evidence for the PATAS hearing.
Watch this space!
November 27, 2009 at 3:50 pm |
Hi Pritesh,
Even I got PCNs on the same Otter Road/Greenford road box. I too feel that the box is illegal. I went to see the video evidence today. I am also planning to appeal against my PCNs. Is there any update on your hearing with PATAS. Would appreciate a response.
Rgds,
Shobhit