PCN

In case you have never seen one before here is a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN for short).

pcn-side1-100dpi.jpg pcn-side2-100dpi.jpg

How would you feel to receive one of these?

Islington Council have seen fit to revise the wording of their PCN. I wonder if that is because the previous wording was illegal? My thanks to Pete for the updated PCN:

revisedpcn-100dpi.jpg

Update 14th Jan 2007

I queried the reason for the changes and I was informed that “Islington Parking Services changed the wording on the Moving Traffic Contravention Penalty Charge Notices to reflect the wording on our other CCTV Penalty Charge Notices. We were re-ordering stationery and it was felt that this was the best time to make the change. The extra wording is not a result of any legal guidance and is additional wording to the Code of Practice guidance.

27 Responses to PCN

  1. Paul Doe says:

    Caught in the same bloody place as your example shows.

  2. Pete says:

    I too was caught here – am appealing thanks to info on your web site. Interesting to see that the PCN I received dated 7/12/06 is worded differently to the one in the picture above.

  3. Mr R Mhango says:

    Like many London councils Islington have moved to a centralising their incoming calls, your call is likely to be answered by a spotty teenager, for which common sense does not apply. Rather than speak to these monkeys, speak to the organ grinder the Parking Services Manager at Islington Council is Gary Griffiths whose direct line number is 0207 527 6066. Best time to catch him is early morning!

    • Ribeiro Baptista says:

      Thanks guys, I’m also fighting my own case lol I was issued a PCN on the 7th of demceber 2010 as I was on holiday they suspended just one bay within 14 bays space there was no sign when I parked now iam being asked to provide a picture as evidence of the place when I parked. do you really take pics on the resident bay when you park your car? its a joke mate I’m fighting and will do so till i go to court. I’m planning to write to my MP and see if he or she can help with this scummers.

  4. H says:

    Oh you are all so great – you know we must fight this war it will only get worse. How did it get this far I don’t know. All I know the local authority are after me?? thise people who do all this work on the sites to help the public are doing such a good job, keep it up and Thank you so much.
    These authourities are just legalized crooks.

  5. Giancarlo says:

    Hi there, thank you for the great info in your site, very useful.

    I am myself trying to deal with a Penalty Charge Notice received yesterday from London Borough of Hillingdon. This states:
    ‘The Council believes that a Penalty Charge is payable with respect to the above vehicle for the following alleged contravention: Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited’.
    The PCN states, at the top of the letter, ‘Road Traffic Act 1991 (as amended) London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003′. I looked up the quoted legislation but I could not find anything about yellow boxes.

    I also wanted to know under what section the offence comes under as this is not stated in the PCN. I called Hillingdon Parking Services but they gave very evasive answers.

    The Notice also states ‘ In Park Road, Uxbridge. Mtc’. What’s Mtc? The Notice states that ‘ the alleged contravention is supported by video evidence’. I asked an employee of LB Hillingdon to view the evidence and she suggested to send them an email or letter to put the case on hold and that the first date available is the 18/12/07.

    Picking on one of the comments posted in this Website, the PCN I received states ‘If the Penalty Charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days, beginning with the date of this Notice, a reduced Penalty Charge of £60 is payable’.

    I hope you can give me some advice, I look forward to your reply.
    Thanks

    Giancarlo

  6. Andrew and Jo says:

    DAYLIGHT ROBBERY – TFL have a licence to print money, it’s tantamount to demanding money with menancies!

    My story is probably the same as many people out there but we must stand and fight these modern day criminals!

    My partner was driving my car and entered a box junction on the very busy Lewisham Way/Parkfield Road in London. He appealed against the charge…
    1. because he believes the box is illegal (he used your site and found the 10% rule)
    2. because he believes the exit was clear when he entered the box

    The fact that he appealed caused a problem for TFL, because he doesn’t own the car. I had to agree that he could make the appeal. So I promptly wrote to them saying that he could appeal and waited. Then a letter arrived saying that they hadn’t heard from me and I should pay the fine. I called them, they told me that they had received my letter and that I should ignore the demand to pay and that once the appeal had been investigated then they would send me a letter. I heard nothing from them until today when they wrote another letter stating that I had to pay £180 plus court costs of £5! I called them this evening and they alledged that they sent me a letter in February rejecting the appeal. I NEVER received this letter and now I have to make a Statutory Declaration in front of a legal witness.

    My assumption is that they don’t send the letters and hope that motorist will find the whole process a nightmare and give and pay. This thought has crossed my mind, dealing with these incompetent nitwits is like pulling teeth! Their system is obviously flawed yet they are allowed to continue conning money out of motorist on a daily basis.

    Your website has given me a new lease of life and I will fight this. I’ll keep you posted!

  7. JasonT says:

    Partner received PCN for Shaftesbury Ave box May 2008. She claims bus pulled out preventing clear exit of the box…

    Camden claim to have the facility that those recipients of PCN who wish to view their footage online can do so: it was not available for the two weeks that I was attempting to access it and thus I requested a viewing of the CCTV from Camden parking serivces.

    I attended for the appointment arranged over the phone and on my arrival the CCTV footage was unavailable.

    The PCN has been cancelled Happy Days.

    Thanks to the website for some guidance and I advise all to challenge all tickets of all shapes and sizes for whatever alleged transression.

  8. Chris Thrift, Fulham says:

    I,too, have been penalised for the box Junction at Kings Road/Bagleys Road which features prominantly on this useful site.
    I paid the fine in March and only now notice that in the case of late payment it increases to a whopping £180!
    I pass regularly over this junction and each time I feel it is very unfair . Due to the complication of this location with left filter up to Fulham Broadway and ahead up Kings Road there are frequently hold-ups and it is virtually impossible to know if it will be possible to cross without interruption, by which time it can be too late.
    I saw the recent piece on BBC Breakfast and thought I heard that boxes over the entire junction are illegal. If anyone could clarify this point for me, I will be very happy to revert to H and F borough and press a claim for refund of my £60. Chris Thrift

  9. NU says:

    COULD ANYONE HELP ME TO CHALLENGE PCN, AT THE BOX JUNCTION IN DRAYTON PARK?ENTERING AND STOPPING…THE PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE FROM THE ISLINGTON COUNCIL LOOK IDENTICAL AT THE ONE AT THE TOP OF THIS PAGE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE CAR.BEST REGARDS

  10. Ovid Johnson says:

    Today i got a pcn for the junction at new kings rd/bagleys lane,i’m so confused and angry.i hate the whole system of traffic regulation in london at the moment.i need some advice on what to do,thank you for this website.i still need to make up my mind of what to do.

  11. george says:

    Dear NU
    I have also been done by islington council for stopping in box junction at drayton park, two photos which are exactly the same showing my car with only two wheels in the yellow hatching. Not sure what to do about this, how did you get on with yours?

  12. Allan Jones says:

    I’ve just been done (June09)at NKR/Bagleys lane. 16 secs half in the box. What tremendous job satisfaction those guys that monitor the CCTV must get! What a way to spend your working life. Never mind they’ll soon be replaced by a computer.
    Seriously, I understand that a box at a T junction should only cover half the road i.e where the incoming road is so I’m appealing on that basis.
    Will post result, good or bad, when known.

    • tim says:

      any news on that appeal?

    • Crazy Doctor says:

      I’m afraid it’ll be bad news on this appeal. The layout of the junction can be different if special exemption is given by the Secretary of State for the DoT, which this junction has and was given on 17th Jan 2007.

      The plans F&H submitted for this exemption are available via Freedom of Inormation act, but can also be found online. Interestingly the road markings at Bagleys Lane / New Kings Road do not match the approved plans from 17 Jan 2007 (double yellow lines around box & box different size and shape to plans). This means the council do not have permission for the box junction as it is currently painted, and it shouldn’t be enforceable.

      I’ve appealed based on the above, and it is over a month since my appeal was heard. Not heard anything back yet, so i’m going to chase. I’ll let you know when I hear the outcome.

      • CrazyDoctor says:

        My case was heard at the appeals tribunal on the 13th Nov 2009, yet I’ve not had the outcome back yet. No news is good news I guess.

        I phoned the appeals guys a couple of weeks ago and was advised they have a massive backlog of cases (no surprise there then) and it is taking them on average 20 weeks to advise of the outcome. He wasn’t able to look at my case and tell be the outcome verbally.

        That means it’ll be approx a year after the alleged contravention that I get to have it confirmed that the H&F were in the wrong.

        I believed a long time ago, that no matter what you appeal to a council, they will ALWAYS reject and you’ll need to go to the appeal’s tribunal. This is presumably yo cause as much hassle to the motorist as possible, so you’ll just shut up and pay up. Starting to look like I might be right.

        I’ll post my case details and research shortly. In the meantime, the argument is very clear;

        17th Jan 2007, H&F were granted permission to lay out the junction (Bagley’s Lane to New Kings Rd) differently to the 2002 regulations (box covering both sides of the road).

        The box painted at the junction is still a different size and shape than the one they were given permission to mark. It is also surrounded with double yellow lines which they were not permitted to do. Put simply they haven’t had permission to mark the junction as it currently shows, so they cannot legally be enforcing the box junction.
        (rant over).

        Hope this helps anyone trying to fight the modern day Highway Men (Pun intended).

      • Young park says:

        Hi, there. My husband and me are also caught on the same spot. We found it out just yesterday. I researched all day long yesterday and finally read your post and felt very relieved. Could you let me know what happened since then? Did you win the appeal? I am not British my self, and I don’t have any experiences in appealing to authorities. If you could let me know exactly how you appealed and on what grould and using what wordin, it would be enormously helpful.

      • Young park says:

        One more thing, Crazy doctor.
        If you are still on the appeal process, what happened to the penaly discount period. Did you appeal within the discount period? Thanks.

      • Young park says:

        Hi, Crazy Doctor,

        I just have paid my penalty charge in order to make it before the discount period ends. Still I would be happy to know the result of your brave fight in the hope that I can get a refund when you win. Please post it here. I do admire your courage and hard efforts and thank you.

  13. controlware says:

    Allan, I know this is no consolation but it probably is a computer already. I think what they have is video analytics software which allows them to select the box junction in the video. They probably have a rule running that then records anything that stops in it. The operator then at the end of the day will review all of the stationary objects connected with the box junction. Pure money making scheme as the fines help pay for the system then will turn a profit. Good luck with the appeal.

  14. dony says:

    on the 27th of the 10th 2009 i got a pcn from drayton park box junction as i aproached it i was dazled buy low winter sun and couldant see the box junction or even the lights at the end on the junction at holloway road
    untill the van in front of me sudenly stoped i got caught at the end of the box junction i apealled as i could not see by the sun on the pictures and on the video all you could see was stong sunlight bouncing of the front of my car i apealed and got a letter today saying ther droping it ? just wondering if they let me off because of some other leagle reason a just didant exect to get it droped so hope the rest of u apeal and do the same rip off gangsters !

  15. Paul Leahy says:

    Hi I too have fallen fowl of NKR/Bagleys road box junction and would dearly love some help in appealing I live in Cambridge and travel that way once in a blue moon so am unable to get there to photograph and look at the legality of the box itself, having read your posts it would appear that it’s not quite legal but I don’t know if H&F have addressed this, my alleged contravention was on 04/03/2010 @ 11.05am. I have started filling in the appeals form online but thought it best to seek some help so if any of you would help then it would be greatfully recived.

    • Young park says:

      Hi, Paul Laehy, what happened then? How did you appeal? Were you able to take any pictures that prove that the marking is illegal? Please tell me in detail how you did it.I am not even very sure how I word in the appeal letter. Any help would be enormously appreciated.

  16. Dave says:

    Recently went to appeals office, don’t waste your time and money, just pay the fine (yes I did say that) I turned right here as per highway code ‘law’ but was told highway code is not law!!!!! and H&F have a special dispensation for this junction i.e. they can do what they like!

    I’m self employed, now cost me registered letters, morning in London appealing/travelling/more money plus time, recorded letters etc and on top ofthat coughed up £120. If you are a ‘law abiding citizen’ and feel you have done nothing wrong, never mind give them your money anyway!!!!

  17. Cinamon Baz says:

    ive lost 2 appeals against TFL my back wheel were in a box junction for 10 seconds, the cars in my daughters name and im the driver, its the box junction in euston road/dukes rd/churchway (north box) the fines now £187 and they want me to do a stat dec please help

  18. Kate says:

    Hi,
    Can anyone help me?.I received x 2 PCOS /apparently I was parked more than 2 secs on the yellow box.Actually what happened was the light was green and I moved into the box did not block the exit and got caught leaving the box,indicator was on to turn left at the lights then the lights became red. The distance from the box to the lights is not enough especially on a school day and the traffic is heavy and also if a bus is turning left into Fulbourne Road,Incidents happened at Kingsley Rd/Forest Road E17
    Wrote letter but was rejected,can appeal ,not sure if I want to go this way.This LIB/DEM government are out to get us motorists.
    VOTE THEM OUT!!!!!!

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